SmartTranscript of Senate Health and Welfare - 2025-05-21- 9:10AM

[Chair Ginny Lyons]: Organizing. What's the date of today? [Senator Clarkson]: You are live. The twenty first. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. Good morning. This is Senate Health and Welfare, and today is May twenty first. We're here looking at an amendment brought to us by senators Clark, Senator Majer, and White, and senators Clark, Senator Majer are here to present their amendment on h ninety one. So why don't you share with us what your amendment is, and then we'll have Katie McClendon go through it. I'll go ahead with us. Thank you, madam chair. And it's so good to be [Senator Clarkson]: in this room in a formal capacity. Katie, we're glad you're here back. We have two amendments and brought to us by the incredible our incredible partners who run our shelters. And they addressed an issue in h ninety one that they feel needs to be addressed. The first, which is the hot funding and the ho hotel opportune the housing opportunity program. And the first amendment is to delete all reference to the changes in funding and how it would be administered. I believe that's the first amendment. And Katie can we'll go through these with you. And the second amendment is if you are not willing to delete all the language about the HOP funding and how it's being addressed because what what anyway, the second amendment is to ask that we set up a study committee that would look at the fee through DCF to look at the feasibility of the future fee feasibility of of how the program is funded, but to not assume any fashion in which it would be funded. And I think that and I know the shelter team is geared to probably testify in support of of this. Anything you wanna add? [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Not really. [Speaker 2 ]: I think we need the the data more than anything else, [Senator White]: and that's why we we want the study. That's just Zoom as senator Clarkson said anything. I don't know. The have is a part of facts behind what we do. Okay. [Senator Clarkson]: Because Katie had sent us the language, which it says DCF shall submit a plan. And what I think we're wanting to do, what the shelters are wanting to do is back up and say, well, we want input on what the plan for the funding might be, not to assume anything Got it. Of how it would be administered. Is that fair? [Senator Majer]: Yeah. Adding it into the arts [Senator White]: program. Okay. [Senator Majer]: Yeah. [Senator Clarkson]: Right. So that is what our [Chair Ginny Lyons]: focus is. Little voice of our room. I know that Yeah. Yeah. You I know that Mark, I know that both you guys would like to offer some comments. [Senator Majer]: So Michael two minutes. So Mark Redman and a Michael Redman is now got Michael today. Thank you. [Senator Clarkson]: Mark in your part [Chair Ginny Lyons]: of the world. Michael on your side. [Senator Clarkson]: So, anyway, those are the two options that we talked about depending on what the committee's appetite was. Okay. And [Chair Ginny Lyons]: I think that they're better and more informed people to discuss it than we. Okay. So, Katie, why don't you share walk through both the amendments. Why don't we which one would you like to start with, senator Clarkson? [Senator Clarkson]: Why don't we start with the first one? Would you like to think the first choice, which is to leave the references to the HOP funding and Okay. Altogether. [Katie McLennan]: Okay. Good morning. Katie McLennan, office of legislative council. Hour. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Yeah. Hold on, Katie. Sure. K. Try now. Okay. Try now. [Katie McLennan]: Morning. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Perfect. Thank you. [Katie McLennan]: Good morning. Katie McLennan, office of legislative council. I don't have sharing capacity yet. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Sorry. That's okay. [Senator Clarkson]: I think they have copies. Right? [Katie McLennan]: Here we go. I'm gonna pull up one point one to start if that's okay. Okay. Here we go. So as senator Clarkson said, this is an amendment that would that would remove references to the housing opportunity grant program from the bill. So as this committee knows, there are several references to that hop. Most of the references are in legislative intent as it would take future action to move the grant funding or the HOP funding into v hearth. So the first instance of amendment is in the legislative intent section, and it removes the reference to hop beginning in fiscal year twenty eight. And it would just retain the language about GA emergency housing rolling into v hearth. The second instance of amendment, delete section five in its entirety. What section five is, is an amendment effective July one twenty seven to amend the purpose section of the v hearth chapter, and the amendment is to include hop as part of, Viharth so that whole, amendment that whole section would be, deleted in the bill. The third instance of amendment is to section eleven. The current section eleven in your bill is divided into two subdivisions. The first addresses, general assistance emergency housing in fiscal year twenty seven, and the second subdivision addresses HOP in fiscal year twenty eight. And so I've just removed the second subdivision and made it into one paragraph addressing general assistance emergency housing. And then the fourth instance of amendment deletes section twelve. Section twelve is the plan from DCF as to how, the transition of hop into v hearth will happen prior to fiscal year twenty eight. So that whole section is being removed in this proposal. And that's it. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. So essentially deletes hop from the bill? Yes. Okay. And would leave hop under OEO? [Katie McLennan]: Yep. It would just be silent. So the [Chair Ginny Lyons]: It would be silent. Okay. Mhmm. I'm looking around the room for someone from DCF and thinking, wait. Would be I understand that you may not have a response to this at this time. This is the first time you've seen it, but it would be helpful to know your response to this particular amendment. And then [Nelly Morrow]: I'm work I'm working on getting a response to that. Okay. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Good. Okay. So that's one. So let's go any questions of senator Clarkson or Casey? Okay. Next one is h ninety one, also an amendment from senators Clark, Major, and White. Seems like you have a common geographic location. [Senator Clarkson]: We have a team that function pretty well. [Katie McLennan]: Okay. Here's the second amendment. It's labeled two point one on the website for today, and this is an alternative to the first amendment that you've seen. This adds a new section eight a, which creates an advisory committee to determine whether HOP should move into v hearth. And the there's a group of community providers and a few folks from the administration who would be serving on this advisory committee. It's a little bit different than the section twelve plan and that the section twelve plan is done by the department and sort of assumes that you are moving forward with the transition of hop into v hearth. Whereas this group has sort of a wider base of stakeholders and ask the question of whether the transition should happen. So to go through it, we're creating this this group to determine whether HOP should transition to on July one twenty twenty seven. The membership of the committee, this language should look familiar because there was an advisory committee looking at a at different topics in the house version of the bill, but this membership and language tracks with the house sent over. That the advisory committee's membership, excuse me, shall reflect to the extent possible the growing diversity among Vermonters include individuals who are black indigenous and persons of color as well as with regards to socioeconomic status, geographic location, gender, sexual identity, and disability status. It shall be excuse me. It shall be composed of the following members, five representatives with lived experience of homelessness appointed jointly by the Chittenden County homeless alliance and the balance of state continuum of care. At the top of page two, five representatives, one appointed by each of the community action agencies, one representative appointed by the Chittenden County homeless alliance, one representative appointed by the balance of state continuum of care, five representatives of local housing coalitions, including at least three of whom are shelter providers representing diverse regions and program services appointed jointly by the Chittenden County homeless alliance, and the balance of state continuum of care. Six, subdivision six, the deputy commissioner of the Department for Children and Families Economic Services Division or designee. And lastly, the director of the Department for Children and Families Office of Economic Opportunity or designee. And then we get into the responsibilities of this advisory committee. The committee shall address whether transitioning HOP funding and duties to v hearth would reduce administrative costs connected with administering HOP, whether community action agencies would more effectively and efficiently administer HOP than DCF's Office of Economic Opportunity, the top of page three, how transitioning HOP funding and duties to v hearth would impact the ability of v hearth to provide consistent and effective technical assistance at monitoring across all Vermont regions. Subdivision four, how transitioning HOP funding and duties to Viharth would effectively integrate with the existing homeless response infrastructure coordinated through the Continuums of Care and Local Housing Coalition's and the impacts of potential reductions in federal spending for affordable housing and homeless response and prevention on the proposed transition of HOP to v hearth. So those are the responsibilities. Terms of assistance, this group would have the administrative technical and legal assistance of DCF. They would provide a report by January fifteenth of twenty twenty seven before the hop transition was set to take effect. It would be a written report to the various policy committees and to the commissioner of DCF with findings and recommendations for legislative action. The deputy commissioner or designee would be calling the first meeting to occur on or before July one of twenty six. The advisory committee would select co chairs among its, [Senator White]: I should I should [Katie McLennan]: say, from among its members at the first meeting, at least one of whom is not a state employee. A majority of the membership shall constitute a quorum. In subdivision four, the advisory committee may divide into subcommittees into subcommittees to carry out its duties under this section. Subcommittees may include individuals not appointed to the advisory council pursuant to this section, including representation of individuals who are older Vermonters, individuals who have disabilities, substance use disorder, or a mental health condition, individuals reentering the community after incarceration, individuals transitioning from the care and custody of the commissioner, and families and children. The advisory committee shall cease to exist on February one twenty seven. And then the members of the advisory committee shall be entitled to a per diem compensation reimbursement of of expenses for not more than twelve meetings, and the payments would come from monies appropriated to DCF. And that is it. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. Thank you. And I'm gonna turn to DCF right now and say to ask for comments on this as well. Good. [Angus Chaney]: I'm still Nelly Morrow to [Nelly Morrow]: the record DCF. I'm working on Julie Sojourner was was unable to be here today. So I'm I'm working on getting Okay. Her input on what's the what the impact of this would be of the of the advisory council as well. [Angus Chaney]: So I will hopefully have something for you. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Sure. Okay. Good. That that would be helpful. I mean, she also is responsible She is responsible for her. So Yes. Yeah. A conference for both. Mhmm. Alright. Martina. Yeah. Martina, any questions that you have at this point, senator Gulick? [Senator Gulick]: No. No questions. Thank you. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. Alright. Senator Clarkson. So, Katie, I noticed that [Senator Clarkson]: you put the date of twenty sixth, July one twenty sixth. And, I I I guess I would love to ask the role who is that really what we want, or do we we don't want it to have a start this [Chair Ginny Lyons]: In twenty five. Amendment. No. [Senator Clarkson]: I know. I just noticed that as you went through it. Do we want it starting in twenty five or twenty six? Oh. That Michael Redman, I have to turn to. I have [Chair Ginny Lyons]: to say [Senator Majer]: No no earlier than twenty six. So the the idea is to we have this operating while the is up and running because that the administration of that transition taking on a general assistance program first is important [Senator White]: to see how that applies. Thank you. I as you know, we're I [Chair Ginny Lyons]: am not part of this world. [Senator Clarkson]: So I'm not clear on [Chair Ginny Lyons]: what I'm timing. Understood. Understood. And you're representing a group of people who've been very concerned about this issue from the beginning, and I will say that this committee has taken testimony on it and is empathetic to the concerns, which is why we have in the bill some decision making process that would help. There is no interest. I I wanna share with you. There's no interest, as I have said before, I think we've all said, in undoing the work that the HOP is doing and it's doing at the local level or undoing the work of the shelters. They are outstanding, k, just so you know that. So just let you know that. K. Thank you. I sadly have to go back to oversee the committee that I Well, I would better get going, but I appreciate your coming in and sharing this and representing the the group because I know it's a Well, [Senator Clarkson]: they are very able able to represent themselves, but they to get on the table as it were. They need to engage us. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: So say one thing about the advisory committee that you've recommended. It is very much similar to a statewide advisory committee that was in the bill as a as we received it and, actually, for a different purpose. And [Senator Clarkson]: You mean the composition was? Yeah. Yeah. Well, good luck, madam chair. Thank you, committee, for listening to us. And I am gonna go back to economic development. Okay. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Thank you. Thank you. May I [Katie McLennan]: just give senator Goodbye agriculture. [Senator Clarkson]: Oh, goodbye, Katie. Goodbye, Martin. [Katie McLennan]: Oh, before you leave Katie [Senator Gulick]: was trying to say something. [Senator Clarkson]: Oh, yeah. Martin. [Katie McLennan]: Before you leave the room, I caught a typo as I was walking through, so just please check your email. I'm gonna send you an updated draft two point two. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Right. Go ahead. Thank you. [Senator Clarkson]: I'm sure the chair has patience for typos. That's the least of our problem at this point in the year. [Senator White]: Thank you. Thank you. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Thank you, Katie, did I saw your screen light up. Did did you wanna share anything, or was that just the lit up screen? [Katie McLennan]: No. I just wanted to make sure that the senators were checking their their email for the updated draft. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: That senator's what? Checking the email for the updated draft. Oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I got it. Alright. Good. Okay. Committee, Nolan, do what? Join fiscal. [Speaker 2 ]: Just a quick comment. Nolan Nagel, joint fiscal office, for the record. Given the size of the committee, the per diems would actually be about twenty five thousand dollars. Now that said, if money when it's when it's below ten thousand, I usually say it's nominal. Now the language says it comes out of their budget, and there's money appropriated in the bill. So I think the money is there. Although, twenty six, it's July one twenty six. So it wouldn't be a twenty five impact. It's a future impact. When it comes out of money, it's gonna be appropriated. So I don't think you need additional appropriation for it, [Chair Ginny Lyons]: but it would be in the hold on to it. [Speaker 2 ]: It would be in the fiscal note or come out of future hop money, and there's thirty million dollars that goes to hop. You so you see, I put aside. My point is a committee of that size does have an impact on per diems. Like I said, the money is gonna likely be there through the other appropriations, but any fiscal note I would do would flag that it's twenty five up to twenty five thousand dollars by this, and given it's seventeen members Okay. That would be eligible for per diems. Just wanted to [Chair Ginny Lyons]: flag that. Thank you. Good flag. Right. Because the bill was voted out of appropriations yesterday. It is on the calendar for a presentation tomorrow. That's where we are. I don't [Speaker 2 ]: think it needs an appropriation. I'm just flagging that. No. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: And and it's twenty six. Okay. So I will allow for a quick comment around the room. I know that you're dying to do that, and then we are going to hear from DCF. And then the committee will have to consider this. We'll we'll have a short discussion after comments and letting you know that our discussion will be around the table. So we'll look for limiting comments to this. Okay. We've been through this multiple times as we've looked at the bill. Go ahead. [Senator White]: Thank you so much, madam chair. For the record, my name is Angus Chaney. I'm the director of the homeless prevention center. We're based in Rutland. We are a HOP provider among other things. That includes emergency shelter, rehousing prevention, outreach, port entry, and and a few other programs. And there are we have about sixteen colleagues around the state, including my two colleagues here who who are are very pleased for the opportunity to, have you hear these two amendments from senators, from Senator Clarkson and from peers in Windsor County. They're so important to us that I I will respect the fact that we're keeping these comments brief. If I speak quickly to the two amendments, I would say our group is in full support of the first one, because it is the cleanest option, and it does not, prevent the legislature from doing whatever it chooses in subsequent sessions based on how the art is going. We think that's the cleanest option. We certainly think that Amendment two is better than current language in H91 in that it asks the question, should we and not just, when and how in terms of transitioning all the HOP resources to this v HARV model. Okay. The only thing I will add on time line because it came up in the senator's presentation is we would, much prefer a time line that allowed the CAF agencies to operate the GA version of BEHARM for a full year. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: So I'm just you're getting into other parts of the bill with [Senator White]: the timeline, [Chair Ginny Lyons]: so I will not allow those comments at this time. So and I appreciate what you're saying. [Senator White]: Yep. If I may just close by saying it's for us, it's it's about more than money. This is I understand. Blood, sweat, and tears that has been built up over many years. So thank you so much, Cindy. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Yeah. No. I appreciate it. It oh, I've heard that I've heard it, you know, idiosyncratically. It's all about the money. Well, for me, it's not about the money. It's about having a a a system of care that is gonna work, integrated system of care that's gonna work. It doesn't mean we're Mhmm. Changing. Just might be doing better outside of anyway. Adam Okay. [Senator White]: One more thing specific to Hobb, which is the the only potential tripwire I see in the second amendment is around the composition of the study committee. And I would just hope that would be if that's the route that legislature pursues, that the study committee is composed in a way that doesn't generate a foregone conclusion. If you loaded all of us up on it, you can imagine where we would go. And and I and and the same could be said if it was a a group of people who work Yeah. For moving hop to be on. [Senator Majer]: So that that I think it's [Senator White]: that's why I say the first option is is your cleaner option. Thank you so much. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Yeah. Thank you. Your hands down. [Senator White]: I'm [Chair Ginny Lyons]: not yeah. I'm not sure that the current language does that either. Anyway, Michael, you wanna make [Senator Majer]: Just add, you know, in regards with regards to this study committee, I'll work backwards on that, that commissioner Winters, when he came before your committee a week ago, said that the administration was open to that as an idea. And I think that is one of the other committees members of your committee actually raised that additional [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Senator Gulick raised it. Yes. It's absolutely true. We did talk further with AHS, and they were less enthusiastic. [Senator Majer]: Okay. Well, here [Chair Ginny Lyons]: we are. [Senator Majer]: We're enthusiastic for I [Senator Gulick]: got it. [Senator Majer]: Yeah. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: I understand. [Senator Majer]: And then then it's then the bills came apart you know, came together in the house without a lot of without any input from the organizations that provide this work and limited opportunity subsequently. We're we are in favor of the challenge that the cap agencies are ready to take on. We think I don't wanna underestimate it and wanna make sure that the second part of it is thought thought through, which is what we're asking for. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Understood. Yeah. No. I think I think we all agree on that. Yeah. It can't be a knee jerk response. Understood. Okay. Is there anyone else who'd like to offer a short comment? Hey. Michelle, Robert for recap. I'll just say based on conversations among the cast, I would say they would have both of these events. [Angus Chaney]: Brenda Siegel and all this says Vermont. I just wanted to say I'm not gonna comment on the amendments, but the advisory committee, which is if if we were to go to the second option, I would wanna make sure that someone from from us under for independent living was appointed, so that there was a disciplinary representation on the committee. [Speaker 2 ]: Okay. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. Anyone else? [Nelly Morrow]: Nellie Marmol, DCF. I have to say that the department is likely to be neutral on these on these amendments. We think it might be more productive to, rather than having the advisory committee be the one submitting a report, have the department work with input from members of the advisory committee and then have the department be the one to submit the the report. But I think general generally, we're we're neutral on on these amendments. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Of course. Question for you for the DCF Mhmm. Is should the bill go forward as it currently exists and DCF is responsible for developing and making the report, would the process include reaching out to interested parties, including shelters and HOP and all of interested parties to come to some decision. Yes. We I think we'd want to make that make those decisions in collaboration with with all of the interested parties. Okay. Thank you for that, everyone. This is, like, deja vu all over again for us, but I do appreciate the the work that you're doing and and the interest you know, you're you're looking out for your own interests, and that's important. And we understand that. We also understand that the decision making on HOP is not imminent. It is a period of time. First, caps need to organize and coordinate through what whatever VR ends up looking like and then a discussion about what it would look like for some of the work that pop is doing integrated in with CAPS or CAPS integrating the other way. I you know? So there's not there's a lot of process that has to happen before any changes are made here. So committee comments at a committee of conference, so I didn't hear the first of my knowledge. I was at a committee of Oh, so I didn't hear the third part of the testimony. The first part is to delete any reference to hops whatsoever. And the second is to add an advisory committee that will bring back recommendations for how and whether it's integrated in with the CAF, the HR program. K. Feels like Dave Chatham? It does. It does. So, Martine, any thoughts from you? [Senator Gulick]: So I'm sorry. I can't be there this morning. Okay. You know, Windsor is not the only district that's heard from their hops. I think it's been, you know, fairly a fairly universal response. At the same time, there's a lot of work's gone into this, and, I think we all respect the work that the hops do, and and we value their work. And at the same time, we're we're trying to put together a system that's coordinated and organized and somewhat centralized, and I think that we're getting there. So I, I I don't wanna derail the work that's been done thus far. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. It sounds like you're not supporting the amendments that are here. I I am not supporting the amendments that are in front of us. We have had this conversation. I don't think that there's anything that is in the works to undo the great job, support, financing, of of and of the shelters. I think they're very, very, very valuable whether you're in Portland or White River Junction or Burlington. Those shelters are Washington County. They're really important to you. So I'm glad that was told that the shelters were included in the house discussion. Now in the house bill that has come to us, they they didn't the the shelters didn't have an opportunity to talk to the final bill as was passed out. They have had an opportunity to talk to him. That's what I have to share. But it is I'm not against it. I know. Well, how do you want to add that with this? What are your thoughts on the amendments? I'll turn I'm turning to everyone here. I've said my piece. I think if we manage to transition the GA housing to the caps, then we can deal with everything else later. I and that's why the situation is and it was confirmed with the discussion last week of the last day that the administration is just trying to offload the responsibility Okay. And cut the funding. And I think that's gonna be the first battle. Right. That's the big battle. That's and if housing vouchers are killed at the federal level, we're gonna have a war. Right. And I I'm willing to give I think the cats, if we can actively fund them, can do the job. And but part of that is working with your shelters. Yeah. I mean, that's that's the way I feel. Shelter should be better and be involved. Specifically, Charleston, more shelters. Yes. With this with similar Yeah. Operational administrative work. Yes. I'm sorry. No. It's loud. On a Wednesday. It's some sort of hang on to the dump or something like that. We looked on calendar. It does not feel You're right. Yeah. Can't think about it. [Angus Chaney]: It's Habitat for Humanity. They're building walls while we discuss housing, and if they're going to move into a house. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. Oh. Oh. It's just Habitat for Humanity then? It's yeah. There yeah. Yep. [Senator Clarkson]: Oh, yeah. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: I see. I have a chat. [Senator White]: And they're replanting me, taking the tulips out before anyone's. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Okay. So committee Sharfel, it it supported deleting every comment in the bill regarding. Anybody support that? K. Opposed to that one. Opposed to the. Okay. That's the issue. Okay. Struggled. Having the advisory committee of seventeen, eighteen people and missing VCILs. Having the advisory committee determine whether TOP should be included. K? Those who support that? Okay. Those opposed? Okay. Cool. That's the answer. That's our Well, we did something together. Martine, we all voted no on both of those, but you didn't raise your hands. So [Senator Gulick]: I'm I'm in agreement with the committee. Thank you. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Thank you. Thank you very much, senator. I appreciate it. So I understand people's concern about You have to understand that we are also empathetic and concerned about Well, we will consult And we will. Before we make a decision Oh my gosh. We will consult with everybody that's in the room. That's right. I mean, that's how this process works. Yeah. We don't we don't not we don't ignore. We do not want it anymore. It's better quality. Well, thank you all. Is Jen coming in? Yes. Yes. [Speaker 2 ]: Waiting freeze. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Oh, good. So we're ready to hear talk with Jen. So we're gonna [Senator Majer]: very much for the time. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Thank you all. I appreciate everything you're doing. I understand your perspective. Keep us honest. Thank you. [Angus Chaney]: What's the next one? One, that's a good one. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: You're Well, yeah. [Angus Chaney]: Walking through s one twenty six. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Yeah. It's eighteen minutes. Okay. Maybe we should do that another day. Okay. So can can we walk through the the the what do you call it? The resolution? Sure. Let's do that. We're taking this up on the screen. The resolution number ready? I am. I'm looking for it. Well, we have to miss a big change. So I have, like, I have a house. [Senator Majer]: I just wanted to I'll be honest. One twenty six. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Yeah. Reference based pricing. [Senator Majer]: Yeah. That one. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Matt, you wanna ask, do you have to As [Senator White]: we send it, possibly. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: And we will ultimately we'll get a side by side because that's [Angus Chaney]: That is a mark up. That's the mark. So we'll show you side. But, [Chair Ginny Lyons]: yeah, you wanna be able to look [Angus Chaney]: at something and see just what it was. That's helpful, and I can send you section by section of that part of [Chair Ginny Lyons]: the of the. Yeah. We'll want all of that stuff. [Angus Chaney]: Yes. And I'm working on putting together an actual side by side that I've also been Awesome. Tracking as [Chair Ginny Lyons]: it goes through that. Katie left. That's her. [Angus Chaney]: Okay. So Alright. So get on this. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Let me Senator Gulick, I'm asking Jen to put up the resolution, the health care resolution that you and I have been and you've most started and then you and I have been drafting with Jen and then brought [Senator White]: to the [Chair Ginny Lyons]: committee, and some changes have been made. So why don't we look at that? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. No. [Angus Chaney]: No. I Jen Harvey, office of at Campbell. I don't believe I [Chair Ginny Lyons]: I have any more, so we'll just have to look for marketing first of April. [Angus Chaney]: And maybe share this quickly with Megan as well. Let me show you some. Yes. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Show me that. I get my copies. Okay. And Did did you all want copies of that or just one copy? Oh, no. We want copies of it, I think, all of us. Okay. [Senator White]: Well, [Chair Ginny Lyons]: why don't we go through it while we're waiting for copies? Okay. We can go. [Angus Chaney]: Alright. So this is a program, so I think we're revised. Senate resolution opposing recent federal actions that threaten public health and urging their supposed to reversal. Just sure. And so I added in some, excuse me, some references to Vermont and sort of to state danger. So in the first whereas clause about withdrawing the US from the World Health Organization, I added in, so a a move that jeopardizes the health and well-being of Vermonters, other Americans, and individuals all around the world because of the WHO's focus on improving public health and on detecting, preventing, and responding to public health emergencies, including disease outbreaks that do not respect state lines or international borders. Get rid of that. The US Department of Health and Human Services is eliminating the jobs of approximately twenty thousand employees, including at the CDC, where teams were cut whose work focused on preventing injuries and violence from causes, including motor vehicle crashes, child maltreatment, falls in the elderly, traumatic brain injury, and drowning, on tracking trends in mental health and substance use disorders, on rape prevention and education, on maternal mortality and maternal and child health, and on many other areas affecting public health in Vermont, the United States, and beyond. The Trump administration has eliminated the entire management and regulations divisions at the Center for Tobacco Products and Methuen and Drug Administration and cut most of the staff at the Office on Smoking and Health at the CDC, which severely hampers tobacco regulation [Chair Ginny Lyons]: and enforcement efforts will have [Angus Chaney]: a devastating impact on tobacco prevention in Vermont's youth and on Vermonters public health. And whereas the National Institutes of Health, a part of the US Department of Health and Human Services that describes it as the nation's medical research agency, making important discoveries that improve health and save lives, is now refusing to award grant funds to universities that operate any programs that advance or promote diversity, equity, and inclusion, which jeopardizes the future of medical research and disregards the existence of health inequities. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: And have a particularly vermando thing [Angus Chaney]: to say there. And whereas the US Department of Education had approximately one billion dollars in federal grants that support critical mental health services in schools, which will dramatically reduce access to these services and threatens the health and well-being of youth in Vermont and around the country. And whereas leadership at the US Department of Health and Human Services lacks understanding of science and scientific research, including a peer reviewed research regarding vaccines and autism. That therefore be it resolved, by the senate, that the senate of the state of Vermont stands in support of science, opposed to these federal actions and urges their supposed reversal and be a further result that the secretary and the senate be directed to send a copy of this resolution to president Trump, secretary Kennedy, and the Vermont congressional delegation. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: So this is the these are the changes that have been made after we looked at it the first time to add Yeah. To make it a little bit more Vermont Vermont focused or with some of them. [Angus Chaney]: I mean, they're federal actions, so it's already Yeah. Keep my focus. But Yeah. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Comments. [Angus Chaney]: Your comments first. [Senator Gulick]: I I mean, I I like it. I I'm not I don't I'm not a hundred percent sure about some of the claims, although I I like them. But, I mean, can we say that the tobacco cutting the fund, whatever it was, the cutting of funds for tobacco cessation will have a devastating impact? Are we are we sure about that? I I it just seems like a very, I don't know, strong we assume we think it will have a devastating impact, but will it for sure? So, I mean, things like that. And then is it can we definitely say that the head of the health department lacks science. What where was it? [Chair Ginny Lyons]: You mean AHS HHS? [Senator Gulick]: Leadership at the US Department of Health and Human Services lacks understanding of science and scientific research. Is that true? [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Robert Kennedy. It's it's for RFK, and for me, it is accurate. Leadership does not mean one person. I think Yeah. [Senator Gulick]: I mean, that that was my I [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Oh, okay. It's not just him. No. You're right. [Angus Chaney]: Do you wanna say I [Senator Gulick]: that's what I was trying to say, Sam. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Like I gotcha. Okay. So what would you say then? [Angus Chaney]: And I have the secretary of you know, you can be as [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Oh. You would be I'm not [Speaker 2 ]: an attorney. Would we get sued for saying something bad about [Senator Majer]: a specific individual? Like, saying that [Chair Ginny Lyons]: It's a public official. Right? You'd have [Angus Chaney]: to show actual malice. Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: Okay. You could You understand my [Chair Ginny Lyons]: We're not working bets. [Speaker 2 ]: We're Right. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: We're sending it out. I understand. No. They didn't say anything about us. [Angus Chaney]: No. It was untrue and have actual analysis. We have the standard for a public control. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Right. When you say that when you say that vaccines are ineffective against diseases, that demonstrates a lack of scientific understanding. So I hate [Senator Gulick]: Could we just say the leader of [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Right. Department? What's his title? Secretary. The secretary. Let's put it down in the arrows. Say where the current secretary. I'm gonna get the education. With that, we can We actually lost grants. I'm getting one. This is the one I sent you. We don't know. Yeah. I'm worth not. I know. I know. But Vermont is here. [Angus Chaney]: I don't actually know who it is. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Jenny? What? Well, if we put that out and it turns out Vermont has a loss, and Grant's to prevent those health. I don't know if she could check our fact notes. Have we lost grants? Not yet? Not yet. I don't know. We may have. So the one I like is the national piece of health. They do all the cancer and I mean, the pharmaceutical companies aren't doing cancer research. No. They're not. But And acids and things that sell. Any research that I've been told for years, they get status through the National Institute of Health. Right. So I'll just take from And they have already cut research programs across the country, which are gonna affect us because we're not gonna get the data. They're going to affect our citizens who aren't Right. Going to get the benefit of new cures for cancer, diabetes, you name it. Do you [Angus Chaney]: want a different word than devastating, like negative that's [Chair Ginny Lyons]: a little less categorical? Yes. I believe that in journalism, I was told they're called words of color. They have an emotional impact. You're not supposed to use them in journalism. [Angus Chaney]: I took out the reference to Vermont in the education cuts and just said Yeah. Around the country. Right. I mean, [Chair Ginny Lyons]: they implicate and it's affecting us, but, you know, we don't know. And that's specific. Describe the drug. That describes the patients. Okay. NIH the NIH is really absolutely so. [Angus Chaney]: Yes. Yes. And I didn't put anything about Vermont specifically in that one because [Chair Ginny Lyons]: So it's a about diversity and equity in the NIH. Is that what you got covered? We're not doing single cell anemia research anymore? That's right. And they're not keeping the fact of diversity of the differences between groups. [Senator Gulick]: My only other comment would be that long list up on page. Yeah. This do we wanna include all of these items? [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Yeah. That hit me too. It's a lock. Sure. [Angus Chaney]: Feel feel free to direct me to cut to [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Can you read that out slowly and we can triage maybe? Sure. [Angus Chaney]: One minute. So this is about the jobs cut at the CDC where teams were cut whose work focuses on preventing injuries and violence from causes, including motor vehicle crashes, child maltreatment, falls in the elderly, traumatic brain injury, and drowning. It's also teams whose work focused on tracking trends and mental health and substance use disorders, on rape prevention and education, on maternal mortality and maternal and child health, and on many other areas affecting public health in Vermont, the US, and beyond. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: So maybe make a new sentence with to begin with on tracking. Would would that help? Well, that's why I have This also includes tracking trends and We'd sort of be the different another whereas clause. That's what I'm wondering. One long Instead of one big clump. [Angus Chaney]: Well, I mean, it's all one sentence [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Yeah. In a resolution. So it's, [Angus Chaney]: you know, whereas a bunch of things. So we generally put a period in a second sentence in the middle of a Right. Well, I know. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Margine, what are your thoughts there? [Senator Gulick]: I was wondering if what you all would think about just removing, for example, just as an example, motor vehicle crashes, falls in the elderly. Just just having a couple things there knowing that it's actually a long list. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Alright. Here's my suggestion, since we're being called to the floor. Let we'll take our printed copies of this. And, Jen, can we come back to it tomorrow? Sure. Yeah. It's preventing injuries and violence, and then we go on to motor vehicle crashes. Right. Child [Angus Chaney]: And then we could just take out the examples. We could say I'm preventing because we're focused on preventing injury incidents. At child [Chair Ginny Lyons]: treatment. Why don't we just say child abuse? [Angus Chaney]: Or That's not the language that they use. Child treatment. I mean, we certainly can. You got this the I the reason we don't currently say it is because that wasn't the language of what I was treating. We can put on child abuse if you prefer. Child maltreatment. I mean I think it just goes beyond abuse. There's, you know, child abuse, neglect Right. Exploitation, etcetera. That's alright. So you're all gonna look [Chair Ginny Lyons]: at it. We'll look at it. We'll come back to it. We wanna get it done. There's no question, but we wanna make sure it's okay. [Senator Gulick]: Thank you, Jen. [Chair Ginny Lyons]: Thank you. We are now adjourned, and we'll get back together because we have to go through one twenty six together. And we'll have other proposals from the house, so we will get back together anytime. So we are now adjourned.

Play Clip Play Full Video Pause

SmartTranscript of Senate Health and Welfare - 2025-05-21- 9:10AM

This is useful for seeing what happened at the meeting without wading through the whole transcript: