SmartTranscript of Senate Economic Development - 2025-02-07-9:00 AM

[Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Such a plan. I'm so naive. Welcome back to Southern Economic Development. We are gonna begin a conversation about sort of our top three priority areas around which I see us developing committee bills. And many of us have drafted stuff that haven't hasn't yet been introduced for a variety of reasons. Lunch council is is has been overwhelmed, I think, by things that all the great ideas that legislators have given them. But I'd love to begin to to talk about we've heard a lot in the last five minutes, and some of it's so stimulating and interesting. Some of it is actionable. Some of it isn't, or maybe not immediately. We I also balancing the reality of our having to get our bills out by March the fourteenth, and that is coming up very fast. We can get a lot done. I've you know, we I have confidence that we can get a huge amount done, but we have a new committee. We're getting up to speed. We're listening to a lot of the updates on all the key areas that are are our jurisdiction. I feel good that we now have at least a foundation for this conversation, and we'll begin it today. And then we're gonna continue because we only have twenty you know, half an hour right now. But what I'd really like to have us discuss, and we may not even get through all three areas, But if we begin to talk about what are some of our housing priorities in our jurisdiction and what are our economic development priorities that we've heard, you know, what are some of the actionable things that we can do this year in housing, labor, and economic development. I think those are the three committee bills I would love to see us tackle. And so all the ledge council are poised to work and begin to put things into into bills that we can begin to look at as committee bills in the next week. So I and I've been meeting with my counter chairs in the house to look at dividing up things. So perhaps a good place to start and I'm sorry, Keisha isn't here, but yeah. Sorry. And I can fill her in because we are in close communication on housing. But, for me, the things that we in this committee can begin to address in housing are infrastructure pieces, project based tips, the spark, but from the governor's proposal. We could take that in. We're gonna hear next week, right in the two economic development days, Wednesday and Thursday. Joan and Jessica are gonna come in and, really walk through that proposal in the brownfield. So to me, those are two key pieces of both economic development enabling that in our downtowns and village centers, but also for housing in our more rural smaller centers and towns. So that brownfield, BHIP and ADUs, which I think but but would love to appropriate the governor's proposals in that and for us to look at and spend more time deciding what we wanna do on those. So that's making them permanent and to me adding more money. And the I have a tax proposal on how to support people who would become ADU developers. The landlord tenant recommendations, project based assessments, there's some good new ideas. Homelessness, what are we able to do actually right now in this crisis of homelessness? We are that's a jurisdictional combination between, human services and us. Creative cost effective construction. We're gonna hear a great presentation next week from Chad and Maura on off-site construction. What little bit can we do to move that along and support that work? It's your neck of the woods. Fairhaven is one of the sites, and that I we're gonna hear more about that. Migrid farmer housing, supportive housing for the disabled, which you heard Frank talk about, high need in smaller settings, incentives to encourage home sellers to sell to full time buyers and incentives to encourage second homeowners to rent unused or develop unused properties that they have or house you know, buildings that we could turn into full time residential stuff and then construction workforce. Of those, I think the house just to kind of finish my thought about how we'd the house, I think, is very interested in starting the spark piece because they have a whole idea that is quite different that would reform TIFs, update them, and make them less of a problem, I think, for us for the entire legislature to deal with, but also honoring the need that we need to invest in infrastructure we've done for us to accomplish our housing goals. So he may and we haven't finalized these at all. And they're gonna start the landlord tenant discussion because they have the chair of that task force in their committee. And so they're gonna begin those of those piece big pieces, they're gonna begin those. And I thought we could begin the Brownfield discussion and the Brownfield proposal in the governor's office in the governor's bill and expand on that and the BHIP and ADHs. So that is just what has been on the housing piece. And do you have additional ideas for housing appeals? The permit appeals are all one of our top priorities. I think, the chair I think a lot of us are feeling like we have to honor the LERV, work that they're launching on. I would like very much to add to in to have the the report due sooner so that we can all take it on board and be ready to act do action on the appeals in January. So the one thing I would do to blur the for the piece we put in action and act one eighty one last year is to suggest that we actually have them finish that work sooner rather than later so that we can act on appeals pretty pronto next session. I am not it's so and it does. And it may some of that may be up and if it's municipal and then or or natural resource. So we'll we'll see. Anyway, those are the those are the thoughts I have for our housing and our you know, what we might be able to add. But I'd love all of your ideas to add to the housing because Cam is ready to start putting together something for us to begin to take action on. So actual things for this year that we can actually get accomplished within our jurisdiction. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: One of the issues is about the time that we have with acting fifty exemptions that we did in our bill last year. And what was the thing that we wanted to extend for, like, the eight or the nine, three point one, the previous twenty seven. Twenty seven and twenty eight and twenty nine. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Twenty seven. Yeah. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: We cut time short and we'd like to see that light in the beginning. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: That is all gonna be in I mean, in. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: It should be. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. So within here, we are really Pro Tem has made it very clear to me that we are honoring the jurisdictional lines. One of the challenges we faced is, you know, in the last two years was the I I don't want us battling between our communities. So we are we're really gonna try as much as possible to stay in our lane. And, so I think we but we might benefit from a joint session clarifying that or at least discovering. And that might be too. Because we all had interest in those issues. There's no question. They are things we care a lot about. So let us that might be a good conversation for a joint session. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: Jurisdictional issues, after whether or not there's anything we can or should do in the short run to speed up the process, build it, and approvals. I don't know how much time we have or plan to spend. We're looking at the jurisdictional issues associated with homebuilding as to what could be done to either combine, eliminate, or avoid duplication, those kinds of things that certainly have been addressed in Yeah. The hundred and fifty studies we've done so far. We have to do something, we don't do something, probably do something on an interim basis, move this process along this time. This is this factor that I find is a little perplexing of all stuff that we face here. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: I agree. High on my list is aligning permitting and avoiding duplication, duplicative stuff. I agree. David, you got some? [Member David Weeks ]: I I do have one idea specific to housing. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. I [Member David Weeks ]: my sense and, again, I don't know I don't have the experience you guys have with [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: those issues. I [Member David Weeks ]: I think that I call it a BHIP plus, which is essentially doing exactly what BHIP does without the requirement to have some of the units be used for low income. That is it's a it's a renovation, rehabilitation incentive to owners to bring units back online in a fraction of the cost of new construction. I'm not sure why we're why this [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: why we're not approaching that. Because some of the dollars because public dollars tend to be used for public goods, and one of the public goods and and our public good, I would argue, now is to house everybody. Right. [Member David Weeks ]: Either it is or it is in a crisis. You know, if it's a crisis, we need to pull a different lever or an additional lever. It's one more tool. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: How many people who might take advantage of something and who might want to rehabilitate operating system are turned off by restrictions and our springs and traffic [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: And they don't be at all. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: Won't do it. And those are also the people some cases, have at least some of the money to do it. That's great. Right. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: So we'll explore that next week with Sean Gilpin who's coming in. [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: I wanna add to that. So what I why I thought of it raised the commercial property assessed clean energy financing mechanism is I I think that's, like, circling what you're after. Because if when you think about a developer wanting to build a large multi story housing complex in a downtown center area or a commercial complex reinvesting it, These PACE financing things, which work for commercial properties, are are a way, to to incentivize and align the the repayment of solar panels or a lot of the energy efficiency things that we do want that do have financial returns, more energy efficiency and so on, with those that buy the property from them later on. So in a way, it honors the current market mechanisms while aligning with some of our policy objectives. So Sure. I I I hear you on the hips or without the affordable string affordable housing strings attached. I'm just wondering if the safe case concept that is improving very successful in other states in New Hampshire just adopted one that Chris Delia is telling me about that has these two characteristics that he thinks makes a lot of sense. I'm wondering if that might fit some of that that piece there. If we had some testimony on it, I have submitted some request for it [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: later. I was excited that you did that. That was great. [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: If the committee so desires, I'd be happy to try to find some testimony from individuals that could speak to what this is. But, I mean, I'll do that every weekend. I'll send some email cc'ing you and see if that's true. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: And I sent your idea to Mark Mahali who is also because he has a lot of land use development work in California where they do use assessments project based assessment work. And I would love to figure out how we can align that with what he's thinking because he's thinking very much, let's think differently about this. [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: This this won't help the small time house slipper. That that is just regular pace, and that's got tons of problems with it, but we could certainly explore pace. I just already know where the pitfalls are gonna be. Municipalities are gonna help. Yeah. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: But it's commercial. So VHPlat, great idea. Sean will be in next week. And if you felt like emailing him and saying you'd like to discuss that, I will give you his email. Yep. Sean, go ahead. I'll do that. What's your second? [Member David Weeks ]: Evaluating the use of eminent domain to re recapture the dormant homes. Or vacant flighted? That's right. Sell them at market or, you know, repay market price. Municipality owns them. They put them back on the market. They redo their costs. They're back into the into the redevelopment, re refurbishing market, and you get house back. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: And Abandoned basically, abandoned properties because that is a great yes. You mentioned that in your list of things earlier, and I did I forgot to put it on this. [Member David Weeks ]: That's my insurance study it. We don't have a experience we really don't have experience in Vermont with eminent domain in that regard. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. We have it for transportation big time. [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: That's fine. We're actually from city council base. I was told you could only use it in that domain for transportation and extend it for projects. Like Oh, no. [Member David Weeks ]: Just that's just the press. Okay. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: I I think let's explore it. I think it's a group I think it's an interesting idea. We have tried to incent the owners who are active owners of those properties through VHIP Right. To do something about it. Right. And it would be interesting for us to explore. Anyway, great idea. I think that's a a terrific idea to explore. And that's and you have another one, I think. Yes? For housing or other? No. Okay. [Member David Weeks ]: No. For [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: housing. So so, Tom, do you have any additional thoughts for housing? I got [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: a list of small things that I think are in senator Ron Hinsdale's bill. They're from a developer well known developer, Evan O'Brien. I'm sorry. Evan Lingfeld and O'Brien Brothers. So these are just little punch card things, and I'll forward them on. They're having to do with reforming some of the previous acts, like the home bill, the home penal bill. Yeah. Really small tweaks. I think they're in CACHE's bill, but they're about to send around in bill bill, and we need to walk through it. One broader topic that I'd I'd love to hear thoughts from my colleagues in, more rural communities, I represent, you know, Jibbon County. Current use. So I wanna understand this better, and I just keep hearing that current use is currently shielding some land from development pressures or incentives while also reducing our tax rules. And I think that intersects housing. So I I'd love to better understand why we have two point seven million acres of in current use right now. We used to only have two hundred thousand and what those impacts are on a macro scale and whether or not that might be where new industrial parks or housing developments might be if they if the current use program had a little more structure over who could enroll in it and what the obligations they had to achieve. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: So as you know, current use began at the land, of a working lands, how to protect and keep land as it is currently used. And that was designed to enable the active active farm and agricultural use and forest. Largest enrolling is forest. Our foreign product industry is one of our biggest industries since you've got it. So it is, I I think we have a new executive we have a new director of the current news program. We could definitely that is a big, very tight one. Yeah. It's That's what I hear. I I cherish [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: not be tight. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: I cherish the the only current use task force we've had because it's like opening Pandora's box. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: But it is and and as I say, it may not be something that you realistically do in [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: No. It's not a history. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: This is a the expert. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Well, like, it's something to be able to explore, though. I would love to put a pin on that and look at that maybe after cross sell. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: It would be it would be [Member David Weeks ]: helpful this this session Yep. To school us up. You can help us out. Yep. I understand the concept. Yep. Let us noodle it, and then come back. Yep. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: That's great. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: And I'd be happy to pull out our two thousand seven. Last time, we had a big current used task force, which I shared. It is I will be happy to dig that out and have and and and give it to you because you need to see it. And it would be a great way for us after crossover to meet the new director of who is resides in PB and R, the property value review, Joe Remick's, team over at tax. So we have a new director there, and that'd be such a great way to meet him or her. Will those I mean, parents, I don't [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: follow-up on this. I wanna admit, I don't understand and know what current use is, so I need to up some time as well. I just hear these conversations I agree [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: with you. [Member David Weeks ]: I probably researched it over the last weekend. I was surprised to find what I found. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: No. No. It's a real It's also our I will say this. It is our greatest conservation program. So it is it has it is that is in many ways why it is sort of sacred to many of us. But always needs to be updated, isn't it? [Member David Weeks ]: Oh, so is active. But active fifty introduced a payment. I there with with some legislation, there's always some negative consequences. We need to see Yeah. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: If there's a negative consequence. That's all. [Member David Weeks ]: We don't know enough to know. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: So that's a that's a big pin. I I think what we will do next week is I'll I'll pull the housing pieces together from Keisha's because she and I we talked for a long time last time, but we didn't get to the housing. So she and I will touch because I know she's pulled together as former chair. She took a lot of the ideas that have been coming in and have has sort of put them into an omnibus bill, that she is looking at. So let's pull those ideas together. I'll circulate that early next week, and and we'll begin to then develop that because we're gonna need to move on in. And may I shift the economic development? Mhmm. And maybe we should have our economic development next Friday discussion after we hear from all these people. But The question is, as you take the broad categories, our bills that we [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: have on wall right now included in any of those categories, are you doing [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: There's one bill at the moment included in this, and we can either act on it. And that's a a a choice we can make as a committee. We can either keep it separate or or we can act on it and incorporate it into a bigger committee bill. So we can make that decision. It's somebody talking about. Well, let's okay. Let's pivot to labor instead. Let's just check. Where am I, Scott? [Member David Weeks ]: I do like Randy's idea, though, that we have, you know, conversation about economic development app. We hear the economic development team dying. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Well, that's that's one idea, but I'm happy to just run through some of my thoughts that that to get the conversation right. Labor, we have proposal three, which we're gonna be hearing about next Tuesday, which is the constitutional proposal that we passed last year. Mhmm. It has to be passed again this biennium by a majority vote in both the house and the senate for it to go to the voters in November of twenty [Member David Weeks ]: Can you remind us of the general talk? For those that, right, to work at Oh, rights order. If we can [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Sorry. So we're hearing from them next [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: Underlying, by the way, that in lines, I think, a lot of farmers, that that create, in effect, the right to organize, you know, to to strive to write through all kinds of things. And what are the implications that given out what current laws? Right. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: I don't think so if it's not included in current law. We have f six on our wall. We have f six, f thirty seven, and, you know, we have some of the labor bills we've began to discuss. S thirty seven was the unemployment insurance support for school support staff. We began to hear about that the other day. We have a patient's omnibus labor bill, which we heard pieces of, but which we'll walk through with Sophie. I have a proposal to establish the livable wages. The minimum wage for Vermont is calculated by the basics needs budget that's drafted, and it can either be introduced as a separate bill or it can be looked at in light of all this. And the there are some other labor pieces. I know that AFT has a proposal. Again, it's not drafted, but they have come to us again with they have come to us with their proposal to allow college and university staff to strike, which is a big field because at the moment, we don't allow certain public sector employees, and they are considered that. Next. Yes. So, I mean, that that is and we may or may not be able to take that up this year in the short time again. [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: So two things. One, I'm being asked to introduce that to the senate. I'm trying to understand the fact story before I put my name on it. I I I generally support that. I don't know about all the the history, so that's what I it's on my two list. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. Okay. So that would to me, let's discuss it as a committee thing because we've both been asked to do this. So which is a frustration I have. For those of you listening, please do that. One of us introduce things rather than scattershot. It was a hallway conversation, I think. Yeah. Often. Okay. The other thing Yeah. [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: That's it. Just so that you don't feel blindsided, I I do have reservations about s thirty seven. And so before I am willing to support something like this, I wanna walk us through the bill, scrutinize the language, and get [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: more testimony on it because there [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: are some concerns I have. That's just me. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. Right? No. No. I I I hear you. And we began that, and that's that's just what I wanted to get started because we haven't really talked about any labor issues. And so we'll begin we began with that work yesterday, and we will continue that. Are there any other labor issues you have yet? [Member David Weeks ]: So I know that there's a bill coming through for Office of New Americans. I'm wondering if this kid or a a parent. It's all signed already to a different community. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: It will go to go ops. [Member David Weeks ]: Go to go ops. Go ahead. If we create a new see it at some point. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Don't I think, Martine, don't I don't know where it is. I but it it would probably go to GovOps, is my guess. [Member David Weeks ]: You don't think we should touch it here? [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: We could certainly ask for it if you know that. I think [Member David Weeks ]: it would be appropriate. We're not so so my point Yeah. Is and I'm not sure all the subdue Americans is really a right is is real response. But the base truth is all the states are feeding from the same trough, and there's a limited amount of supply going to the trough. So how do we how do we affect that? [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: You mean in migration? In migration. Yeah. When and we're assigned who comes here of our refugee population in [Member David Weeks ]: our new America. Just a trough. But [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: it's a very important addition to honor We're talking hundreds. That's hundreds. I'm talking tens of thousands. Well, yes. And, sadly, I think that for us to honor that way that we need of workforce is the federal immigration. I agree. I agree. But the Office of the Americans is a concept that is just not a take some testing stuff. I think that I think that that's great. Any other labor issues? [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: Well, in terms of labor issues, like, major thing one of the major things that concerns me is how much do these things cost if we're how are we paying for an s thirty seven as a class of exam. Right? [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. And I need to ask because we one of the follow ups was asking JFO to do so after we could walk through, we can decide if we want to ask JFO to do a Yeah. A good report. Because you're absolutely right. Thank you very much. Okay. You ready to hit the high level on some of the economic developments? Yes. Okay. Here are my high level. Remember, this is this is just to get our lunch council years going. And we're gonna hear about these next well, I don't know when we're gonna hear about downtown tax credits, but still downtown tax credit credits in, again, in the governor's proposal. Designations, We talked about expanded trade offices. We're gonna hear from Ted Tim Tierney next week. We've had a very successful trade office established in in Quebec, And we are looking at, again, what avenues to sell our goods abroad. We're looking at with a number of other states establishing one in in in Pacific somewhere in in Asia. BIPOC community bid, we're gonna get an update on that next week. Wages, which I think we've just decided are the three of us, you work and I, were checked. The labor, marketing, micro biz micro business community follow-up on our small business conversation, how we can continue to to roll out more supports for our small businesses and entrepreneurs. And that's looking at access to capital. It's looking at resources that we can continue to provide. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: Yeah. What I'm looking at, right, Clayton, of many of the things that you mentioned is accountability and return on I know. How do we know that we're giving money to these things that we're actually getting something dead? Good morning. So, yes, some of the things may be subjective and feel good that we get back, but I would like to see some economic objectives. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Absolutely. And I think that one of the excitements that we hear on some of this and then access to capital, and we have this state small business credit initiative that has been divided. There's fifty nine million dollars that's come into the state, half of it to loans, half of it to equity. And so I want to get an update on where that's going, how that's being invested. And so we're gonna hear from a whole host of capital investors and and Vita. So oh, the whole range. And I I will show you this list, and I can run through this list. But that is a piece of so what we've been doing Yeah. We've missed you because and you and I need to coordinate on our housing stuff because I took we we talked big time Yeah. Picture of what we have a very few weeks to get Yeah. Bills together. And I've been [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: Very antsy to just put language on the table. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, and we began with labor. So we took three big buckets Uh-huh. Labor, economic development, housing. Yeah. And so, I would love to chat with you in the next you know, we talk about some of our housing hopes. Okay. I have Lots of Toms were aligned with you. Mhmm. [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: And I have language whenever we're ready to [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yep. And I have language too on some stuff. So I think we we wanna get that as as much as possible on the table and that we can start walking through next week. [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: Where? So okay. So we're scheduling a whole day to walk through language next week. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Question is, we need to figure out when we're gonna start doing that. And, yes, we'd have to start I am. [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: I know to that. I I feel like I I don't wanna [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: write [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: write that here. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: No. You're not. You're not. It's just a a a our time has been extremely tight. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: When you ever made the side that you feel it's into [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: the language that you have drafted. Evan Langfel from the line brothers and business with eight and nine things that he's so revisiting the home, the home bills. Is that part of what you [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: Will will you I think a lot of them are naturally, and and Evan Langfeld, those folks may know, is has been at the center of the actual litigation of our language from the last two years. So the cleanup that I'm aiming for from that bill is is in many ways reemphasizing our intent in places where that was called in the quest. So, yeah, we I think we just have so much specific Right. Work to do that. I think we'll we can then find witnesses who helped tell that story. And so much of what we've been hearing from these witnesses is in some of these bills. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Right. And I know this is a source of discussion for you and me, but we have been asked by the program really to stay in our lane on some of this. So some of this, you may be wanting also to ask in SNRE [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: Mhmm. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: And some of it here. So I let's chat when we have more time to do that. Right. But I joint session we might do? Yeah. What? You said we might [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: do a joint session with them? [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Well, I think that might be a wise idea just to clarify. [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: I mean, Arlene is housing. You know, I I I have nothing in my bills about tier three. I have, you know Right. Where we but we are tier one a [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: and b. Well, actually, that's that's a discussion that we have to have with the front end because, no, it's and and with Alan and with Anne. So it it that is not clear. [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: I mean, that those are economic development and housing zones. So [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: I one day is an atrophy. [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: We we can I I don't know if we have that discussion here or elsewhere, but if we're still having that discussion now and it's February, I am concerned? No. Because I'm not gonna relitigate that every two weeks. But, you know, let me we we can send a bill to them, or I can go present my language in their committee. But whatever it is, we're not ignoring it because it's jurisdictionally complicated. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: We're not ignoring it. I think you ought to be presenting it Right. Wherever it should go. [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: Right. To get to some form of agreement as to what we're gonna do overall sooner and not on the last day of the session. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: I think I'm clear on the agreement, and I think that we just need to make sure we present it where it needs to be presented. [Member Kesha Ram Hinsdale ]: Exactly. But let's present it here first, and then I would anticipate as chair, you can have that conversation with others or you can send me to have that conversation. But I don't want us to get bogged down in process at the expense of the economy and our housing crisis. [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: That is absolutely what my intention is and what I have worked been working to make sure doesn't happen. Okay. So that that is that is but I will share with you the housing list we just talked about and see how it coordinates with what you and I think we're being called to the floor. So I I I acknowledge that, and that's [Member Thomas Chittenden ]: So time's always shorter here. I mean, [Vice Chair Randy Brock ]: let's [Chair Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. That's

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