SmartTranscript of Senate Economic Development - 2025 01-16-9:00 AM

[Chair ]: Welcome back to Southern Economic Development, Housing, and General Affairs. And at the moment, we're going to address one of our pillars of General Affairs. Wendy and I, commissioner of Liquor and Lottery, it is good to have you back. Oh, thanks. Nice to be back. And before we start, I don't know if you've met our two new committee members. You know, senator Jitman? [Dave Wrigs ]: Dave Wrigs. [Chair ]: Dave Wrigs. Wrigs. Nice to meet you. Do you have a night yet? It's yours. Take it away. Thank you for having me. I wanted to spend a little time today just sort of giving you a a recap of f y twenty four. If we have time, talk a little bit about our priorities for this year. Time. Okay. I have to be in another community at eleven thirty. So Oh, maybe you'll be maybe I should live in it so they can just Yes. I think that's good since that's This is a priority for me. Yeah. So f y twenty four, we saw lottery revenues at a hundred almost a hundred and sixty nine million dollars. The revenue from the lottery fund was emailed to the education fund, and we were able to transfer thirty five million dollars into the education fund at y twenty four. That's right. [Speaker 2 ]: Is that a big jump? [Chair ]: Is that a jump? Yeah. I A little bit. Yep. Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: A big jump. A little bit jump. [Chair ]: Yeah. Well, we've been pretty mostly in the twenties and Yeah. High twenties. I can give you the five year trend Mhmm. For that. It's not that big of a jump. Okay. But I can give you the five year trends. Sorry? Making notes of what this Yeah. Yeah. Good. On the liquor control funds, f y twenty four, we ended at a hundred and two million and change, almost a hundred and three million, and then we were able to transfer to the general fund twenty one point two million. Keep in mind that these revenues for liquor control, that hundred and three shy of a hundred and three is the sales of the eight zero two spirit stores of liquor. It's also the licensing fees, and it's any fees or violations. The bulk of this, of course, is the sale at the eight zero two spirit store. Unlike the revenues that I showed on the lottery side, all we do on the lottery side is we sell lottery tickets, and that money gets transferred over, less the expenses, etcetera, and the long term liabilities, etcetera. [Dave Wrigs ]: So can I ask you to have elections? So the delta between the revenue and the contribution is used for Administration. Or or Oh. [Chair ]: Winning pay. So on the lottery side, if we're selling a hundred and and I can give you that. If we're selling a hundred and sixty eight million dollars in lottery tickets, there's gonna be a whole chunk of that is paid out to people who are winning. Right. And then it's expenses. That's right. And then it's long term liability. So you're yes. Liquor? The same thing. Right? So it's it's not the winning payouts, but you're gonna have all the revenue, less the expenses, less the long term liability we have for pension and OPEB, which is other payouts like vacation. Benefits. Benefits. Yeah. Benefits. But see, administrative employment. Right. It's it's it's pay for themselves. These Correct. We're running businesses. So you have to make the revenue, less the expenses, less you want to manage your Make [Dave Wrigs ]: sure I understand the distribution Uh-huh. Winnings on lottery. Lottery that are solely within Vermont. The payout is solely coming being paid for out of those revenues in Vermont. Revenues were things like Powerball and those kinds of things in Nashville. I assume they aggregate everything nationally and then pay out from that Yes. States? [Chair ]: Yes. So, I mean, I can give you the breakdown of the winning payout that come from a hundred and come from a hundred and seven sixty eight million dollars. I can give you that breakdown. [Dave Wrigs ]: And the the the payouts, assuming that they're what are they distributed by state on formula basis or are they distributed by state on on the sales within those states for that particular drawing? How how do they decide how to contribute the [Chair ]: I don't know the details of the draw drawings. I can give you that. So for example, I'm a hermometer. Mhmm. I buy that Powerball ticket, and I win twenty million dollars. Mhmm. You're asking how that payout is in terms of Where [Dave Wrigs ]: is that money coming from? Yeah. I know it's coming from Powerball. Does it come I assume it's coming from some sort of a national distribution. And then the question is, is that national what's that national distribution based on? Yeah. Is it based on the sales you know, each state, or is it based on some formula that exists, or is it based in some part on how it's distributed? I I show how it's distributed. I'm curious. [Chair ]: Yep. I can find that out. Okay. Great. So let's talk a little bit about liquor trends, and I've talked about this for over a year now. So People are promising to bring samples in general. [Speaker 2 ]: She has I did. I Gotcha. [Chair ]: We were in the RTDs I brought a whole you know, we we did a props. Remember I had a props? The slider, the canned cocktails, the beer, the wine cooler. This is nonalcoholic for the record. It's a probiotic soda. So before we leave those big buckets, lottery Yes. For online sports betting. Yes. And that's some slide Got it. Yeah. So then the third component of revenue to be generated is from the online sports revenue. That we are just regulatory bodies. We are not running that business unlike liquor and lottery. We're actually running businesses because the state authorizes us to do that. So one of the things I've been talking about is that liquor consumption and therefore liquor sales and therefore revenue that are coming from liquor sales are going down, and we just need to plan accordingly. Right? So we're not in the business. The department does not promote the consumption of alcohol. We just make it alcohol available. We tell people where it is, how much it is, where to buy it. So we're seeing this in our projections as well. We are actually projecting for f y twenty five a one percent decline. Some of the reasons why people are consuming less alcohol, inflation is part of it, legalized cannabis, states that have legalized cannabis. People are choosing to avail themselves of legal cannabis products and not alcohol. The younger demographic is choosing not to drink, not to drink as much. And so those are some trends that are impacting the consumption and the sale of alcohol. Again, it's just something as policymakers and legislators, we should just plan accordingly and expect that we will see less revenue coming from the liquor control product. [Speaker 2 ]: Well, and on the search in general. Correct. [Chair ]: And then there's the health considerations where people are talking and reading and educating themselves about, you know, the relationship between alcohol and cancer. Right. And in this breakdown, is there the statement statistics true for wine as opposed to hard liquor? All of across the board. So wine consumption Wine consumption's down. Cider consumption's down. Beer consumption's down. Spirits consumption's down. [Speaker 2 ]: Nonalcoholic beer has also gotten a lot better. I'm not a beer drinker, but my husband connects, like, nonalcoholic wine terribly. Well, that's the thing. Others, it's a factor that's contributing to us. [Chair ]: And thank you for that point is the quality of nonalcoholic products has improved dramatically over the last five years, for example. So you're seeing a lot better quality. You have a whole brands of nonalcoholic spirits. Mhmm. You have nonalcoholic wine that, you know, is available. Remember in, you know, my day was like, you had one nonalcoholic beer available, and now there's a whole variety of them, including some of the Vermont manufacturers are making nonalcoholic. So, anyway, it's just something for us to be mindful of that I would argue that those are good trends. I think people are becoming very intentional about consuming alcohol and they're educating themselves about it. And if people wanna save money because everything's more expensive and they don't wanna buy liquor, that impacts our sales. And what we have to do as a department is understand, okay, what what can we do about that? Again, we don't promote the consumption of alcohol, but can we open a few more kiosk stores and tourist area? Because we know we know we have a lot of tourists that come up here. Great. Let's make this available on a smaller little footprint to some of the tourists that come out that wanna, you know, go in and buy their products. So we're thinking of things, but being very clear that we don't promote the consumption without a problem. [Speaker 2 ]: So you'll start this yes. That's Yes. Do your do our eight zero two spirit stores sell nonalcoholic liquor alternatives? [Chair ]: So an eight zero two spirit store is a it's that is a brand that the department gives them when they sell distilled distilled spirits. Mhmm. All eight zero two spirit stores are second cost licenses that have the ability to also sell wine, beer, cider. Mhmm. Their grocery stores and their convenience stores, they can sell whatever they want. They could sell cereal. They can sell milk. They can sell nonalcoholic products. The department has no jurisdiction over nonalcoholic products. [Speaker 2 ]: Okay. So even if they sold alternatives, there'd just be no revenue to the state. Correct. There's revenue [Chair ]: in terms of sales revenue. There's not revenue that comes from the department. And you'll see a lot more availability even, you know, in the eight hundred and ten spirit stores and convenience stores. You will see the brands of, you know, tequila or [Speaker 3 ]: Mhmm. [Chair ]: Nonalcoholic brands that they have, like, this is a nonalcoholic tequila, this is a nonalcoholic whiskey, or this is a nonalcoholic rum. [Speaker 3 ]: So [Speaker 2 ]: And can you remind all of us none of the alcohol tax in the state, like, the rooms and meals associated alcohol tax goes to your [Chair ]: Correct. The only tax that runs to the department is the tax that comes through the sale of the distilled spirits. You have rooms and meals tax that's collected directly from the tax department, which actually represents almost the same amount of money that we collect on the spirit side. So the state actually generates more tax revenue when we sell the spirits through the bars and the restaurants, which is why as a business strategy, it for the department is to promote not promote. To support the bars and the restaurants. Right? And so we now have several initiatives what we call our on premise accounts. These are the bars and restaurants where you consume the alcohol on premise. Right. Okay. [Speaker 2 ]: You need to keep removing. Yes. [Chair ]: Okay. So this just the five years liquor sales just shows you we were trending up, and then we had COVID, little bit of a spike there, and now we're resetting. We're resetting after COVID because bars and restaurants are open. We're buttoned back to our normal patterns in a way, so there's a reset. But there's also that trend of people consuming less. And entire workforce into this as well. Bars and restaurants are open fewer hours and fewer days. Correct. Because they don't have a workers consumption Correct. Sales to the state. So, yes, they're struggling with finding workers. Yeah. You know, so many, you know, it's fine. And we hear that a lot from when we have we go out for capital for the day or we have our stakeholder engagement, and we hear it a lot from the manufacturers, the bars of the restaurants, the stores that cannot find the workers. So that's something you guys are working on, I know. So I wanna talk a little bit about sports wagering, if I may. Yeah. We wanna also hear what your goals and expectations are. Okay. Good. Yes. I will. Alright. So let's talk a little bit about We'll have you back for Yes. You'll have me back. Talk. Yes. Please. Please do. Because I didn't even talk about the reports [Speaker 2 ]: that I sent you. [Chair ]: But Yeah. Online sports majoring, I guess, in general, I would say we're wrapping up this year, calendar year. This is a year of infrastructure. This is the benchmark year. We won't have any comparative data until we start to get into this month because remember we have this year, January eleventh, a year ago. So all two thousand and twenty four is is giving you a snapshot of, okay, this is what sports wagering looks like in Vermont the first year. So we did well. [Speaker 2 ]: Can I ask a clarifying question? Yes. So it says f y twenty four. Is that I have both. I have two. F y It's fiscal. So I have fiscal and then calendar year. [Chair ]: Correct. I wanted to give you the fiscal year because that's how we Yeah. Profit here. Basically, six months. Six months. Monday. Mhmm. And then I also wanted to give you calendar year because I wanted to show you where we are that is so fiscal twenty four, our revenue share was projected at three point two. We ended up at three point five. We launched in January, remember, when playoffs, Super Bowls, we had a good month. We are now just watching every single month. It's very cyclical. We're seeing one football. We're in NFL season. We're watching how that impacts. We looked at the Olympics. We looked at the solar eclipse. So we are really following because it's very cyclical in terms of the revenue. You don't capture all wagering online. Like, you know, if there's a prince, a princess is expecting a baby This is just wagering on baby you know? Correct. We only allow in the Philippines. No. Only in Vermont, we allow wagering on a sporting event Right. Defined. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. I didn't think we could do the Olympics. Yeah. It could. Okay. I thought that was considered, like, college adjacent or something. [Chair ]: Sadly, it is older. No. I think there might have been, you know, in in sports that are predominantly the the participants are younger than eighteen. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But, no, there is a wagering on the Olympics. Okay. And then for certain seasons, we then do a report on the season. So we'll do a report on the NFL season. We did a report on the solar eclipse, things like that just to sort of see where [Dave Wrigs ]: it is. So You could you could waive or something on the solar eclipse? [Chair ]: No. Okay. [Speaker 2 ]: No. I that no. I was fader. I had that moment. No. [Chair ]: You're only allowed coming in. You're only allowed to waive your own forty minutes. What I'm talking about is that period where we had the solar eclipse. We we we did a report to see what the activity was, and we saw the patterns. We were looking at dashboards that show the traffic patterns coming from Connecticut and Massachusetts. Right? We saw it on the liquor side as well. Liquor sales went up because you could see people coming in, and you knew where they ate or two spirit stores. So We [Dave Wrigs ]: need more purchasing. [Chair ]: Yeah. That's We get yeah. Yes. We need more tourists. Right? We need Yeah. And and that's that's So so what we're seeing for the calendar year is we have six point three in revenue for the calendar year. Now when we were putting together our f y twenty five projections, we took okay. The first six months of f y twenty four, we had three point five million. We're just gonna assume we're gonna double. Knowing really that June or July through December, we're not really sure if we're gonna see three point five million. That's just kinda a guess. We know it's cyclical. We know the NFL season drives this. So, yeah, NFL season's gonna start up in September. So we're gonna think that three point five is a is a is a good estimate. What we're seeing is it's trending a little. It's not growing as as much. And so we've taken our f y twenty five projection of revenue from sports wagering down from seven million to six point one. And the reason we got that is because we were we follow it every month, and we're seeing that that the winning payouts are more. We're seeing more winning payouts, which means we have less adjusted gross sports wagering revenue so that we less money to the state. Right? So the irony is as players win more money, the state earns less. Keep in mind, though, if you are a Vermonter and you're winning more on online sports wagering, you're going to go out to dinner. You're gonna buy a rug. You're gonna pay income taxes on it. You're going to we assume it gets They take circulated into the big money. Free money. Like, one they won, so they could go spend it. So [Dave Wrigs ]: Yeah. We did. That's why the house always wins. [Chair ]: Well, actually, we're showing that the house doesn't always win in online games. And so right. Exactly. This isn't casinos. So we're actually seeing that the payouts have gone up. They from f y twenty four, the winning payouts represented eighty eight percent. From the calendar year, they represent eighty nine percent. So it's something that we've been following. So just to, you know, we're so we're looking at, you know, anywhere from six to seven million dollars. Right now, we've projected six point one. Hopefully, we have a good playoff season and the Super Bowl. But, again, we don't have anything to compare it to until until we start the right year, and then we can start comparing it both in terms of the activity. We know that it's very cyclical in terms of when there's tourism, the solar eclipse I mentioned, ski season, Martin fifteen weekend. We see that more out of state activity, and you see it in terms of the percentage of out of state players versus in state. [Speaker 2 ]: I have to say I feel personally responsible for the swath of, like, really annoying sports betting commercials that cropped up after we passed the bill, though I apologize to Provostris for that. Very annoying, and I hope there's not as many going forward. [Chair ]: I think that the the the launch means that they're going to advertise and let people know that one, online sports wagering exists in Vermont, and we want them you know, they wanna keep have people sign up. And and then there's a a little competition, I think, between the operators. Okay. So on the responsible gaming, problem gambling, again, these are just benchmarks. What we noticed, I think it wasn't until the spring that the Department of Mental Health set up their hotline. So some of the calls, ironically, are people that are hanging up or they're asking about the lottery odds or they wanna know what their winning numbers are. So those are kinda like, okay. Those aren't really help. There aren't people seeking help. We have the self exclusion list, so you can see some numbers there. And then the next page is the operator responsible game and tool. So, again, the Department of Mental Health works with the players, setting up resources and tools for the players and making sure that players know. So there is a big outreach effort. Right? A big public outreach effort to let them know. It is key. We want people to know where they can get help if they think they have a problem. And how do people know who aren't gamers but are experiencing the behavior patterns of gamers? How we market to them if there's help for them? For their for their for either spouses or children or whoever who they are witnessing having an an increasing eviction to someone. We have had calls. We've had people that are, my you know, a wife that calls up worried about the husband, and then we can refer that wife to support as well in the resources. But how will we we [Speaker 3 ]: I mean she [Speaker 2 ]: What is the outreach? I heard radio ads. Right. [Chair ]: So we do radio ads. We do I I don't know all the details of the how we do that much. [Speaker 2 ]: Social media. Great. But I think for new members, it's it it was key for me in in ushering this [Chair ]: to build through the [Speaker 2 ]: committee that prior to, legalizing sports betting, online sports betting, we had very few explicit resources for people experiencing problem gambling. We got one call in maybe six months because people didn't know that hotline existed, didn't Right. Reach out. So we were already promoting other forms of gambling without any revenue going to improving our outreach about total gambling. And seeing this many calls is now Pardon [Chair ]: me? We've suffered the lottery. Yes. So we had a [Speaker 2 ]: hundred thousand dollars going to an out of state hotline that got one call. So this is a huge improvement in that mind. People knowing about problem gambling and reaching out. [Chair ]: So the prior to the passage of support building, the part we the Vermont Lottery had an arrangement with the Howard Center to do, you know, support for problem gambling. It was not it was a reactive program. It wasn't a proactive program, which is what the senator is talking about is that now we have a combined program. So it's funded from online sports wagering and Vermont Lottery. And the reason we're able to have this framework for responsible gaming is because we've regulated through online sports wagering. So we've put together this structure, this regulatory structure, and we built into that an ongoing mechanism to fund responsible gaming. Right. And so that's good. And it's good that people know about the resources. We put it on our signature lines. The National Council of Problem Gambling has a one month is, like, problem gambling education month, and we do a whole bunch of initiatives around that. So definitely have more information for you in the responsible gaining report that I sent, and I'm sure you'll have the department of mental health in, and I'm happy to come in and talk about that. So how are we doing? Moving good. Ask. Alright. So here's the I sound like president Biden. Here's the deal. No. Here's oh, alright. So here is our priorities from a policy and a legislative perspective. We have one, which is online lottery, and that is called iLottery. It's called iLine lottery. I have a lot more information that I will share with you. Yeah. We'll set up a time for you to come and actually fully present. Yes. And I will definitely do that. Basically, what it is is I will you you basically have a traditional ticket. Right? You can play a traditional instant ticket or you can play in your phone. We go we used to go into a bank, and we were only able to do our banking by going to see a teller. Now we do online banking. I do. So this is sort of, like, moving evolving the business forward. The industry's move forward, and so we are looking to move forward with the industry by allowing the online purchase of tickets. Now there are fifteen other states that do this. The thing to keep in mind is right now, we have the ability to go into one of our five hundred and eighty two retail stores, or you can sign up for a subscription. So I wanna make that clear, and I can talk about it is the going into a a lottery retailer is not the only way you can buy a ticket. We have a subscription service that has existed since two thousand and twenty, twenty no. Two thousand and two. If you wanna play a draw game, you wanna play Megabox and Powerball, you can sign up for a subscription. You can choose to thirty nine weeks of draws or a hundred and fifty nine weeks of draws, and you pay a subscription. You send us a check, and we send you your winning. K? You don't ever have to go into a retail store. So that's another that's an option. ILottery is another option. Right? So it gives the player the ability to either go into a retail store or to sign up for a subscription or to play via online. So when you come back to present this for you, we'll wanna know how many people have a subscription. How much more about that you're expecting? Seven nine. What are the demographics of the people who do who do this who do. Because I think there are some human service concerns up up Absolutely. This big time. Yes. I'll have demographic defense. Yes. And yes, happy to talk more about it. [Speaker 2 ]: I also imagine that there's some benefit for someone who might otherwise use a lottery ticket that's cheaper to being able to access the winning ticket by other means than [Chair ]: Oh, yeah. That's a great point. Thank you for one additional [Speaker 2 ]: My father has a hoarder and take out a lottery, and I think there was, like, a bunch of if [Speaker 3 ]: you if you if you if you if you if you if you if you if you [Speaker 2 ]: if you if you you can't claim it. Yeah. Mhmm. Unlike, you know, we have Bitcoin right now where people if they lose their physical device, they might lose that all that money. So I would hope that we make sure somebody It's an account. [Chair ]: It's not if it you know, it's [Speaker 2 ]: like Right. An account. [Chair ]: You set up an account. You can access on your phone or your website. Right. You Right. You're wrapping me up. I gotta go. We will look to have you back. We will talk more about that that. We've also because we you've gotten a a couple reports during the whole session last time. Yes. It would be great to have an update On those reports. On those reports. Yeah. The one I remember the most is direct to consumer. And I say that last night. Yeah. And There was a product There was a there were there were yes. There were several. Okay. So they're in your inbox. Yeah. Happy to come back and talk about that. Anybody, last quick question for Wendy? Great. Thanks so much. It's wonderful to see you. It's very nice to see all of you. Nice to meet you. I'm sorry you're getting so much exercise. No. No. No. That's the only exercise I get. Running into the balls. [Speaker 2 ]: Who's your name, Charles Martin? Yes. [Chair ]: It's me. It's me. It's me right now. My director of legislative affairs resigned. So you guys need to go [Speaker 3 ]: to folks that are helped. [Chair ]: So you guys need to worry me until I get a replacement. Okay. Oh, sorry. Yeah. [Dave Wrigs ]: Good for us. Not for you. [Speaker 2 ]: I don't have to be here. [Chair ]: I I I do have other work to do. Yeah. No. That's challenging to have both of those losses. Mhmm. Yeah. Sorry. Well, hang on. Thank you very much. Nice to see you. Gotcha. That's it, like, from diet soda. Yeah. Enjoy your probiotic soda. Bye bye. Thanks. So, Heidi, we'll make sure we schedule Paul with that because I know that's and I don't know who is anyone on this committee been asked to draft that to to sponsor that? Or she just I I I think we're just gonna have it in some high lottery. High lottery. Has anyone been asked to have that developed? Okay. Great. I think it's well, here are all the issues involved with that, which is of which there are several, I understand. So I had saved I'd say I'd we'd saved as we planned this last half hour today to finish up our priorities. And David and Tom and I shared ours this morning. And, we're happy to do a recap, but I'd also like to finish with Kasia. Kasia hadn't finished hers. And Randy had touched on some very high level ones, but not necessarily on some more granular ones. So we have twenty five minutes now to do that, and we welcome [Dave Wrigs ]: Mine mine are pretty simple. Right? If we could talk a little bit about housing Yeah. And how we And [Chair ]: we talked this morning, all all of us at Sure. Housing. Housing is a is a Appeals aligning permits. At the top [Dave Wrigs ]: of the list. And I think housing, remember what we do. I mentioned in the high level of [Chair ]: the time. [Dave Wrigs ]: Stuff that we've done before have cut, checked off virtually, but not set some clear expectations that are reflected in whatever we drag about how to get housing filled faster. Yeah. And How we get permit process working faster, how to look at whether or not there are ways to consolidate the bidding so that they can find necessarily multiple places that people have to go in order to get permit. And then lastly, searching. Oh. That if you do a, b, c, and d, you'll get it permitted. Not that you might get it permitted. Somebody fixed it. You look like you wanna have one [Speaker 3 ]: Yep. [Dave Wrigs ]: Which is what it seems like we have right to. That those things, I think, we could do a lot to encourage developers to build housing. And one of the things that we need to do, I think, in this process, we talk today about who do we wanna talk to. We have to make sure that we talk to enough people on the other side of the aisle as opposed to things like the BHCB and others who have We're in share our own vested interests, if you will, and to talk about the individual developers and the developers, in some cases, perhaps, who are not building here. [Chair ]: Right. We're hearing from developers, and we're hearing from contractors, and we're hearing from a whole a whole range of people who are actually implementing Yeah. And then, [Dave Wrigs ]: obviously, I think to to help us, we probably need to look at how can we get better metrics as to if we do a, b, c, and d, what's the result that we ought to be able to expect? In other words, can we reduce the cost of housing? And we can reduce the cost of housing if we simplify and streamline the permitting process. [Chair ]: Well, not just that. I mean, one of the areas that I'm hoping we'll explore is supporting modular housing ways to build more efficiently and more cost effectively. Yep. So we're I will have a proposal on Yes. Parting [Dave Wrigs ]: out while while builders have left a lot. [Chair ]: Yeah. We're here. Four. So I think we're all probably agreements Yep. On that end of the work. [Dave Wrigs ]: So Right. That that's that that's kind of the first priority of start. You had mentioned some things some things about our. One of the things is this is an area of of I would I would like to re revisit, you know, what we do in terms of supporting the movie industry. If you recall, we did a a task force, and I was cochair along with Jessica from state Right. Two years ago, looking at the film industry in Vermont. You know? I get sick of seeing moonlight in Vermont, the recap being made in Vancouver. We have people who are filmmakers in Vermont who are doing their films in Massachusetts because of the subsidies. I realized that we can't do the subsidies that they do. But when we did, we did this task force, and the task force results went into health and welfare and just simply weren't [Chair ]: dealt with. Let's review them. Not health [Dave Wrigs ]: and welfare. They went into go ops. [Chair ]: To go ops. [Dave Wrigs ]: And I think we should review that report. [Chair ]: We should, and it will be in conjunction with the workforce development that is big project that's being planned around film too, film and media. Mhmm. David and Tom, we had a film commission as you may or may not know for a number of years. My husband was one of the founders of it. Matt Dunn, Bill Stetson, and the three of them really put together our film commission in the nineties. And we had it for a a a while, and we just it it was a tax we just couldn't provide enough to compete still in terms of tax credits. And we ended up it was underused, underused, and finally, it went out of some ways. It means heartbreaking. I think Patia was on it with me at that point when we pulled them. We we closed the filter. [Dave Wrigs ]: It was it was simply, you know, effective. [Chair ]: But it was [Dave Wrigs ]: In many ways. [Chair ]: It it was very effective when we had somebody in the industry who knew what they were doing Correct. And who was able to bring who was a location whiz and really marketed in LA. So one of the [Dave Wrigs ]: other options we found from the the work that we did on this this study today is a surprisingly large number of people in Vermont who are in the film industry Tons. Of directly and virtually. But in some cases, working on major motion pictures, but not doing it in Vermont. The work would be being done elsewhere. And and [Speaker 3 ]: There [Chair ]: are lots of ways we can support that industry through editing, through editing studios, through catering, through you know, with there are lots of ways we can do it, and and I think we need to do it later. [Dave Wrigs ]: Yeah. We need to do a better job of measuring economically what the contribution is, but recognize it right off the bat. It's it's not gonna be a million dollar winner. But the surprising number of people who participated in the public outreach sessions that we have for the industry suggests there are lots of people working in this industry who are well hidden in Vermont because they're working elsewhere or or contributing remotely. [Chair ]: Yeah. We're we're very present like Bessa Bryan and Jake Craven who Yeah. Are are really good about marketing their films to us as we need to see them because someone's got a doctor. [Dave Wrigs ]: As a result of again, the substance their latest movie was made in Massachusetts. Yeah. [Chair ]: Right. Apart from that subject. [Speaker 2 ]: I would just add, you know, as a as a native of the Los Angeles area, a lot less is gonna be done in Southern California [Dave Wrigs ]: Yep. [Speaker 2 ]: As we continue to see fires burn. And I don't wanna treat that in any crass way, but particularly with the air quality that will linger for a long time. Yep. We are the film industry has to go on. We have a lot of SAG AFTRA members who came to visit us last by NAM, who are here, and I'm sort of raising their hands for the first time. So I think it's really the the right time to have that conversation. [Dave Wrigs ]: Yeah. And, again, I the assignment one, I'm going to go to deal with it. I think, frankly, as an economic innovation, really should come here. [Chair ]: Why don't we work on it? Something like that work on that and and and with some specific assets. I know there's some workforce assets too, so we could combine them. They'll go. So [Speaker 2 ]: so what I you know, I don't know if it helps to start talking about process. I am drafting a lot of I did ask Okay. [Chair ]: Of what bills were being drafted that were coming to [Speaker 2 ]: this point. Well, I prefer kind of as my preference was when I was here, for better or worse, to have the language ready and try and do as much joint committee work as possible. Otherwise, I think particularly for lunch council, it gets very hard to follow. And he's taught that last year. [Dave Wrigs ]: They do have a fair amount of drafting that they've done for the previous bill. [Chair ]: Yeah. [Dave Wrigs ]: And I think we should pull that out as as as a starting point and then look at another phase that we may wanna add to it. [Speaker 2 ]: Right. So that I've requested, and I just, like, leave it up to everyone. And I know that the administration would like to have their own bill put forward, and I personally welcome that. [Chair ]: On which subject? It's housing. Okay. So you're shipped to that. Oh, that's fine. No. No. Okay. [Speaker 2 ]: Cool. I was but I also have a labor labor language being drafted, UI workers comp, etcetera. So Great. I have a [Chair ]: big major That's good. Product. But then I am hoping that we'll have a housing bill that is a committee bill that we'll all feed into because I know that they're gonna have a You and I have a chat with that. Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: I exactly. I have no prior authorship about this stuff. But I Right. Yeah. I do think we're gonna see an administration proposal coming, and I personally welcome that. I think there'll be lots of overlap, frankly. [Dave Wrigs ]: Would be I think there's there's a great opportunity to get your consensus if we deal with the problem that we had last time, which was the committee on [Speaker 2 ]: Mhmm. The traffic jam. Traffic jam. In one of the committees of jurisdiction. So I I have I mean, I have a list of seventy five things, and many of those I've started to draft in language that I'm happy to share with the committee whenever the committee's ready. Although seventy five, what are your top? Well, I would say, I think broadly in housing, it I I think I told this to senator Brock, but, like, I can't get over the idea that we just allow projects to continue while they're being appealed. I think that's the one of the best ways we could solve this problem is that everyone wants a resolution sooner than later, and people aren't looking to delay simply because they know that would push the project out until it's not unbeatable anymore. And I'm asking our housing community to look at Massachusetts where this may be the case. But even if it's not the case in Massachusetts, I want us to give this every avenue of exploration, particularly after certain levels of appeals or after a vote's been taken by the community. We allow way too many appeals, period. Yeah. I think we need to look at ANR permits as well. We did yeoman's work on act two fifty, but urban soils, wetlands, things that we have to ask the question, are we getting environmental benefit for the cost that we impose on these projects? And urban soils, our housing partner, our formal housing partners are telling us, we're not. We're moving contaminated from one place [Chair ]: to another. We're doing that and winds are causing it some money. [Speaker 2 ]: That's right. Elizabeth Bridgewater. Yes. So I'm I'm dead person. I think we need to take another look at in a in in when we look at the bucket of things that are us adding cost to housing projects, It's energy requirements, energy code requirements, it's historic preservation. I'm going to touch every single third rail that exists in this building because we should be pointing a finger at ourselves first and asking what is a federal or international requirement and what are we adding on top of that, and is it adding value? And even VHCVI hope will come in and say, we have had projects where internal historic preservation has been prioritized over the comfort of the people moving into that housing. And I think that's wrong. And I want historic preservation to come in and talk to us about that. And people may know in Burlington, we had a fight over a one story, non historic, cheaply made hexagonal church building of some kind where the Italian, Catholic church had burned down before. And we had people who worked for state historic preservation who no longer worked for state historic preservation joining lawsuits against the city for allowing that housing project to move forward. So we cannot be shooting ourselves in the foot at the start of the race, and I am gonna start making names if we continue to do that kind of thing. And so I'm gonna touch every third round that exist that cost of housing started with us. I have a big bucket of things under economic empowerment and community wealth building. I almost wish that was sort of our vision for, you know, our other buckets of work this year. But I really and you saw I think you heard me mention it yesterday, but I think we would be well served to have an open conversation with Vermonters in forms like a care economy week, an infrastructure week, a, trades week to really talk about the health of the big systems within our economy and what the best ideas are to propel those systems forward. These are areas where we need to be looking at the health of those as pillars of the economy. And I don't think we do enough big picture conversation like that with Vermonters. I have lots of other things that would fall under that category as well. I was heartened to hear in the aftermath that Senator Weeks talked about the economic value of immigration and the economic impact that immigrants have. I think we can frame an entire conversation around that. Personally, it it it's something worth contemplating in my mind that we have this interesting new experience of migration across our Canadian border that is in many ways probably costing us in law enforcement and in in sort of concerns about people crossing that border, and they are skilled laborers who are going to Boston and New York City to work. And any opportunities we have to work with our federal delegation to help turn that cost into added value in our state would be something that I think would be time well spent for us. I really hope we I asked, this morning if we could make sure we have representatives from our federal delegations offices come in soon because programs like section eight where we will see people who have housing that are on section eight lose benefits as well as the huge waiting list we have on section eight be obliterated. Those in lots of ways are people who are trying to work through the system to get access to housing. And can we quantify the number of people and the amount of money that it would take to house those folks and build new housing and use those dollars instead of in emergencies because they now are losing housing and precariously housed to actually build that housing and fortify our existing hotel, motel program Perfect. [Chair ]: Permanent housing. And that also ties into our landlord tenant work. Right. Because section eight, as we all know, is is a a a real challenge on both sides for the amount of of of paperwork there. It's a wonderful piece. This morning. Public this morning on this very subject, and it's definitely something we'll be taking up while we address the landlord tenant piece, which will begin next week. Just to go back, David, one of David's priorities was the h two b visa. We will be hearing from our federal delegation exactly this. And before we leave housing, I I know we have had migrant justice is very concerned about our our, our particularly our agricultural workers and the housing that they're in. And so that will be a piece, I hope, of our conversation as [Dave Wrigs ]: we study committees that we're on. We did [Speaker 2 ]: Right. That and that's the week where we're having the I've asked for [Chair ]: a place for that. Exactly. And so Sophie's working on that. Sophie will be in presenting that next next week with the with the chair. So we're When I and I just I just wanna remember that we're gonna go to five of them, and I have a committee team. [Speaker 2 ]: Oh, great. When I talk about community wealth building, I don't mean to just throw it out with some new term of art. I have actually asked some of our partners who talk to European countries like Ireland to come explain to us how they've changed their economic policy to thinking about existing assets in communities and how you invest in those infrastructure via the main line. So I don't think we can leave the infrastructure conversation out of committee. [Dave Wrigs ]: That that discussion discussion about how some countries do that in attracting business [Speaker 3 ]: Yes. [Dave Wrigs ]: I I know from personal experience is very interesting because rather than, in some cases, asking what do you have to present to us, asking the the entity, the state, the government, asking the industry, [Chair ]: what would you like? Exactly. Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: You know, [Dave Wrigs ]: a degree of flexibility that we Right. [Chair ]: What would you like and what do you need? [Speaker 2 ]: And and they're telling us infrastructure and housing. [Dave Wrigs ]: The fact that that's very powerful Yeah. To a company that's going to deliver a business or this [Chair ]: Right. Right. To the state. I remember that. Well, let's definitely figure out who might come and check check with us on that. I I I I [Speaker 2 ]: ask Connor Casey to ask the the minister Well, the the community. There must be there [Chair ]: are certainly people here in this country that Yes. All Yeah. I mean, I think every one of us think that when we come here as we try and make progress on behalf of Vermonters, we're trying to community that we're trying to build the the the health and welfare of our community. So it's still there are lots of pieces to that community about health and human. Right? Correct. [Speaker 2 ]: Oh, I have a consumer protection bucket. Yeah. That's fine. It includes flood code and Yes. Looking at reduction from your flood insurance liability if you meet the flood code. It, to me, means that we need to look at real estate listings that carry a high flood risk. When I saw in Woodstock that we shared with the with the chair, you know, a seven out of ten flood risk listed on the listing, four million dollar house. Three three point. Oh, maybe they lowered the point. Three point eight or something. But, you know, I just it it just concerns me to to not know how we're managing a statewide conversation on housing in in high flood risk areas and making sure that we move them and expedite the moving of units out of flood plains as well as, encouraging those properties to meet flood code before they, just like they have to meet fire code before you can you know, that's part of a liability negotiation. [Chair ]: That, I think Anne will be quite interested in finance too. But it certainly is an incentive for people to do a lot of flood prevail, though Yeah. Some of these homes can't even get flood insurance. [Speaker 2 ]: I was I was with the home builders the other night, and I I think this is an area of work where we look at how we've done, and I don't think it's well on the contractor registry. And is that having an impact at all? The home builders actually probably not with anyone's permission, but individually raised wanting to have robust training and professionalization of contractors, but that the registry is probably an ineffective way to do that. [Chair ]: As we all know, the registry was compromised. And so [Speaker 2 ]: that was we can have some home bill. I mean, [Chair ]: I think Why is this maybe for step two? [Speaker 2 ]: I am going to polyamishly say that I hope, you know, quality and and law abiding contract contractor provisions can be bipartisan at some point. And I'd like to have some folks in the industry come in and and talk about that. And maybe we could just scrap fights over the past and, you know, look at that anew, but we need contractors. We need good contractors. And and we can listen to them about what they need to feel like there's a level playing field for their work. [Chair ]: And it doesn't. And we can't afford to have it be the number one collection from the consumer protection program, consumer assistance program. So that I [Speaker 2 ]: I I agree. We'll have the secretary [Chair ]: of state come in and update us that on that and subcontractors and home builders. If I speaking if there was a constituent of mine who had an [Speaker 2 ]: issue, I think overall, what I would say is, you know, we're gonna be tight for time with government stakeholders who have to be in both sides of the the chambers. But there's lots of Vermonters who wanna talk to us, so I can forward you an avalanche of stories, both positive and We have had naked [Speaker 3 ]: and a [Chair ]: lot of those stories here, which is why we ended up with a consumer with a Mhmm. A a contractor registry. [Speaker 3 ]: Mhmm. [Chair ]: But I I'm [Speaker 2 ]: not talking specifically about that. But in general, I think it's just good for us to hear from Oh, yeah. The volunteers. Absolutely. It's been way more informative to our work. They feel heard and, like, our bills are better. [Dave Wrigs ]: And it's also for those who perhaps have been victimized or would have lost money in one way Absolutely. To hear that. So there is times. You also don't want to hear from, contractor who are concerned, particularly the small business who is can overwhelmed by regulation. And one of the things that we have as a state is we are overwhelmed by regulation because one of the problems that we have with wire and building in the houses. [Chair ]: So there's gotta be a [Dave Wrigs ]: balance somewhere in terms of the intelligent way that you can have this. [Chair ]: Right. I completely agree. I'd like to end the morning by doing something that our secretary's office has asked us to do, in which I we keep I keep forgetting to do, which is elective court to this committee. And, we have a, we, have a tradition of the, perhaps the newest member to both the committee and the shortest serving senator, serving as clerk. And so I I'm I'm I'm asking, who might be interested in serving. Well, I'm I'm most interested. And I'm hoping that senator Reeks might volunteer to serve Because we would love to help you serve if you were willing. Well, you could like to ask if you as you know, mostly primarily recording our votes for real public. Right. And I would ask for a vote on that so that all those in favor of supporting senator Weeks in his clerkship of the senate economic development housing and general affairs committee, please say aye. Aye. [Speaker 2 ]: All good. You didn't agree with no. [Dave Wrigs ]: Do I get to give a speech? [Chair ]: Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: Yeah. [Chair ]: Yeah. Absolutely. And acceptance speech is in order. How's your penmanship? [Dave Wrigs ]: Terrible. [Chair ]: Oh, shit. David, we thank you for stepping up with us today. We appreciate. And, with that, I think we are done. Or that I would remind everybody that the climate solution focus is, begins.

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