SmartTranscript of Senate Agriculture - 2025-02-18 - 10:30 AM

[Chair Russ Ingalls]: Good morning again. Senator Eric Culture back in business. We're gonna spend some time with the NEK group, representatives of the North Sea Kingdom. We have Jeff Carlo, who's gonna kinda direct how this, testifying go, and she's gonna make a statement before we start. Good morning, Jen. The floor is yours. [Jen Carlo]: Good morning, senator Ingalls, members of the committee, and Linda. Thank you so much for having us here this morning. This is our seventh annual NEK Day at the state house or Thursday will be, and, we're so grateful to the committee for making some time, to, talk, with a few witnesses about different agriculture and related projects around the NEK. We will be, bringing, a larger group to the state house on Thursday, and we hope to see some of you. The purpose of NEK Day is really just to raise awareness about all of the wonderful and unique aspects of the Northeast Kingdom, which is comprised of Caledonia, Essex, and Orleans County as you know. And also to I'll [Chair Russ Ingalls]: just have you I apologize. I'll just have you officially introduce yourself. I know I did. But just because we don't have you on the agenda, just tell us who you just tell us who you are and your title of what you're doing. [Jen Carlo]: No problem. My name is Jen Carlo, and I'm the executive director of the NEK collaborative. [Speaker 2 ]: Thank you. [Jen Carlo]: And with that and what I previously said, we'll we'll proceed with our witnesses today. First up is Mark Rogers. Mark is the owner of MKVT Farm in Glover and is also the newly installed president of the Vermont Sheep and Goat Association. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Good morning, Mark. How are you? [Mark Rogers]: I'm okay, Russ. Good morning, chairman Ingalls and and men members of the senate ag committee. And I'm gonna start off by apologizing. I had detached retina last week and had surgery, so I'm sitting here with my right eye closed. I'm not winking at your ass, but I'm [Linda Leehman]: I'm having a little [Mark Rogers]: I'm having a little trouble seeing here, but I'll I'll do my best. And as Jen said, you know, my name's Mark Rogers. I live in farm in Glover with my wife, Karen, at MKBT Farm. I am a retired dairy farmer and was Vermont dairy farmer way back in nineteen ninety six. Outstanding young Holstein breeder in the United States in nineteen ninety nine. And last year, I was actually named Vermont's fantastic farmer. So I've traveled a lot of miles, been involved in a lot of national organizations, done a lot of things, but I've been glad to call the Northeast Kingdom home for for most of my life. For the past ten years, Aaron and I have raised lambs, pigs, chickens, turkeys, rabbits, and beef for over a hundred customers throughout New England for our farm to table business. And as Jen said, I am president of the Vermont Sheep and Goat Association. I'm a director of the American Sheep Industry Association. And many of you may be aware that I imported the very first Dutch spotted sheep into North America last year. And this was part of my effort to create agricultural opportunities in Vermont to grow and strengthen the ag economy. And as a retire retired dairy farmer and former AgriMark board member, I understand the significant role that the the dairy industry has played in Vermont. I also understand why it's declining as the decline of the bovine sector of the dairy industry will continue. However, I do wanna point out that the goat and sheep dairy industry is growing and has some strength to it, And this is an opportunity to backfill some of the small farms and homesteads vacated by dairy cattle. And I believe that small ruminants for dairy and also for meat and or fiber will continue to provide a solution to keep Vermont fields open and economically viable. Small ruminants will help us meet Vermont goals for food production, while the grazing of small ruminants will provide environmental sustainability and improve carbon sequestration. So some environmental benefits there too. Another thing I do in my spare time, I'm a contract auditor for a greener world, and that's a international standards organization certified certifier. And I'm a certified animal welfare officer and poultry welfare officer. I perform audits for animal welfare and regenerative certifications in the United States and Canada, so I've got a better understanding of these issues than than most. And what I wanna point out is as we we about the production of food and and doing things, we can't lose sight of the well-being of all animals, poultry, the economic sustainability of our farmers, and the environmental consequences of our farming practices. Some of the challenges that we face here and and and other farmers' fate as a small farmer is access to processors for our meat, for wool, for fiber, for skins to create more value. And for instance, Northeast Kingdom processing here in Lindenville is is processed you know, processes tons and tons of meat for everybody in the Northeast, and they made an announcement earlier this year that they're not gonna process any lambs in October and November. My local processor here, Phil Brown and Glover, won't process any lambs at all. And part of the claim is that they can't afford to run them through their facility and be able to afford their to pay their help. And as of right now, it still cost me a hundred and seventy five dollars to process a lamb. And when the total value of the lamb is is under five hundred dollars, that's that's a lot. We have to send our hides out of state to have them processed. There is a processor in Manchester, Vermont, Vermont Natural Tannery, but they only do six hides of bay. So, you know, we've we've got some roadblocks in front of us, and wool has little value, but the Vermont Sheep and Goat Association and others are trying to to work to do some of those things. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: So where is the where is the growth mark? Where where is the good growth? Because we're hearing, well, we can't there's not enough goat milk or whatever. Talk about where the growth is in that in that in that segment. [Mark Rogers]: Well, so not everybody is cut out to be a a sheep or goat farmer. The trouble with sheep and goat is goats are they're cute, and a lot of people think that they can grab ahold of some cute animals and and make a legitimate business. I mean, so I wanna start right from the beginning to say, not everybody one should be a farmer, and not everybody's gonna be a good farmer. But what we've seen is really the transition from bovine dairy to goat and or sheep dairy. Dairymen make good dairymen for the most part. A good dairyman can dairy with any animals. And that's why I say that some of this growth or some of the backfilling of the small dairies, because in typically, you know, a small dairy that milk fifty to a hundred cows can handle, you know, two hundred to five hundred goats, say, which I think is is economically viable. And there is a market for the milk, whether people wanna just sell it wholesale to Vermont Creamery, or there's a number of artisan producers in the state as well. It's a little different for sheet milk. There's a big demand for sheet milk, and I think Hanson Tebbetts will tell you because he keeps getting after me, trying to get some of the Amish up here to to put in some sheep milk dairies. There is a growing need for that, and David Major down in the southern part of the state has been extremely successful with what's the, you know, the oldest sheep milk dairy in this in the country. So Vermont has some unique opportunity to slide some small ruminant production into areas that have been vacated by cow dairies that have gone out of business. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Yep. I'm gonna, Mark, hold some of your thoughts. I'm gonna get some other people on the screen here because we only have the thirty minutes for you today, and I'll give everybody a fair shot. But just before you go, it's rumored that you know somebody in the state house? [Mark Rogers]: Yes. And I want everybody to know that the lieutenant governor is my little brother. I do not look like him. I'm older. I look like this first, and he looks like me. So it's good. Thank [Chair Russ Ingalls]: you, Mark. Well, if you have some time, we'll get back to you. Jen, who do you have next? [Jen Carlo]: Thank you. We're gonna go with Matt Linehan next. Matt is on Sparrow Arc Farm and will talk to us a little bit about that. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Good morning, Mark. The floor is yours. [Matt Linehan]: Good morning. I'm Matt Linehan. Matt. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Lenahan. I said Matt. I'm sorry. Apologize. [Matt Linehan]: It's alright. It's alright. I own and operate Sparrow Arc Farm in the Northeast Kingdom Potato Company in Guildhall, Vermont, and represent Vermont as our state rep to potatoes USA, which is the USDA appointed marketing board for potatoes in the United States. Yeah. I'm here to speak in favor about the proposed Vermont farm emergency fund. We've been flooded out. We farm on the Connecticut River and have been flooded out the past two Julys in a row, twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four. We lost, well, about twenty percent of our crop in twenty twenty three and thirty six percent of our crop in twenty twenty four to the summer flooding. It's not a spot we're gonna be in again. Two years in a row makes a trend for me, and we're not planting anything on the flood plain anymore aside from pumpkins. We grow fifty fifty, fifty five acres of potatoes annually. So although it is not a spot I necessarily foresee for us being in a pinch again, I think that given the events of the last couple years, doing something with more prior planning and more robustly than, say, the b gap, which was, you know, useful and great, would be a very, very good thing, because I recognize that, like, we're we're in a unique spot in that, like, we farm the valley land, but we, you know, can move off of it. Like, we just switched our rotation from three year from four years to three, and we don't need to put such a high value crop down low anymore. But, not everybody is in that same position. And when you look at, like, the August flooding in Saint Johnsbury, Caledonia County this year, you know, Kirby Wheelock, Saint Jay. I mean, eight inches of rain overnight and what that did to the roads. I mean, it's we we need I I think it would serve Vermont well to have a a a a plan to deal with these catastrophic events for the [Chair Russ Ingalls]: future. So we walked through that bill this morning. We're gonna have it talk about two more times this week. So we'll be working on that. Tell us about what you did get for for help to, you know, to to help get you through. [Matt Linehan]: Well, I mean, the numbers for twenty twenty three, I honestly don't remember. I'm calling you from the truck. We're delivering potatoes today. But twenty twenty four BGAP got us fifty thousand dollars against a hundred eighty thousand dollar loss. So fifty thousand dollars is not nothing. It was well appreciated. But, you know, still lost a hundred and thirty grand, and we're not, we're not a particularly big farm. So, you know, we just we're gonna get through it. Alright? We're not going out of business. You know? We stayed out of the terminal this year and tried to move the average price of our product up and hustled like hell and, you know, I think we'll make it. But [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Where is your where is your market? [Matt Linehan]: We sell all over New England and into the Hudson Valley in New York. So, I mean, we sell our biggest single customer is the Vermont Food Bank. They have tremendous partners, but we sell to Black River Produce in Springfield, Vermont. Them and the food bank would make our two largest in state customers along with Performance Food Group out of Burlington, Vermont. And then we sell an awful lot of product in Eastern Massachusetts, Boston area restaurants, Boston area farms, and to the terminal market in Chelsea, Mass, which is repack. So, like, from when we sell to the terminal, our potatoes are packed in house brand bags and go all over the eastern seaboard. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: And in a very competitive, business of potatoes, you walk through the any store, and there's there's a lot of potatoes there. What separates you? What what gets yours to market and get yours sold over other over others? [Matt Linehan]: Well, we're fairly low spray, but, I mean, honestly, if you see our bags in the store near you, it's quite obvious that we are Vermont grown. We push the Vermont grown thing really hard. I mean, hence our brand name, Northeast Kingdom Potato Company, paper bags, got a view of the mountains, Vermont, grown all over it. That's how we push the product, and, and it's really worked very well for us. I mean, yeah, you can find our products at most of the co ops in the state and all the white markets in the kingdom. Yeah. We're check us out next time here at the grocery store. If you see Vermont potatoes, they're us. [Linda Leehman]: So, Matt, I'm gonna jump in here if I could. You mentioned you do about fifty five, sixty acres of potatoes, but you're not gonna plant on the floodplain anymore. You have other acres that you could devote to that. And what are you gonna do on the floodplain, like a cover crop or just let it go? [Matt Linehan]: No. Our our low land will plant pumpkins, dry corn, and sublet to the dairy farm that we rotate with. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Okay. And you have land [Linda Leehman]: that you move your potato planning to? [Matt Linehan]: Yeah. There's, like in in our part of the Connecticut River Valley, there's, like, let's say, two layers of floodplain. There's the village level, and then there's, you know, the true flood plain, which, you know, the true flood plain typically goes underwater every spring, and that's totally normal. It's only been in an exceptional years, every ten to fifteen years that it would summer flood. So we farm the old Peaslee potato farm in Guildhall, you know, which was a potato farm for a hundred years, huge brand name. Bert Peaslee was very active in state politics. Janice Peaslee was a rep for a long [Linda Leehman]: time. [Matt Linehan]: So since since nineteen ninety, aside from twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, the summer flooding had only hit the kingdom during Irene. That was the only year. You know? So, I mean, generally speaking, knowing summer knowing summer flooding was possible, we've only ever planted twenty five percent of our crop down low thinking that would be enough because, you know, once every ten years losing twenty five percent of the crop, that's, like, kinda no problem. I mean, this is farming. You expect to eat your shirt sometimes. But two years in a row, I mean, you can't you can't suffer those kind of losses. You know? [Linda Leehman]: Okay. It [Mike Snow]: seems the new normal. [Linda Leehman]: Yep. Thank you. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Matt, we're gonna we're gonna get through here. Thank you. [Mark Rogers]: We'll see if we can [Chair Russ Ingalls]: end up for time. We're gonna move on. Jen, who's next? [Jen Carlo]: Thank you. And next up, we have Abby Long from the Kingdom Trail Association and Molly Willard from, Vermont Forest Parks and Rec to talk about the forest future strategic road map. [Abby Long]: Good morning. Favorite committee. Thank you all for welcoming me back. Twice in one week. That's that's a treat for us. As you know, from last week, my name is Abby Long. I'm the executive director for the Kingdom Trail Association. Live up in Burke, which is up in the Northeast Kingdom, which is what we're celebrating today. I will, of course, you know, can't go a minute without talking about trails, but we're really gonna be focusing on our forests, which as Russ, you know, that working landscape, which outdoor recreation is a part of is vital to our Northeast Kingdom region. But before we dive in, I'd love Molly if you'd like to introduce yourself. [Molly Willard]: Yeah. Hi. Good morning, everyone. I'm Molly Willard. I grew up and live in the Northeast Kingdom, and I'm joining you here today from Forest Parks and Recreation where, I worked with Abby on the development of the forest future strategic road map and many others. And I work within the forest economy program as the wood energy and forest product specialist. [Abby Long]: Thank you, Molly. So it was actually I'm gonna bring you back to twenty twenty two. It was and it was actually you all, the legislator that called in H183, for Vermont's Department of Forest, Parks and Rec to produce a strategic plan or roadmap for the next ten years for the state. And so, the goal of this Vermont Futures Forest strategic roadmap was to first look at the current state of Vermont's forest product sector and the greater forest economy and then identify the long term viability of our forests. And, in order to do that, an advisory panel was created, which I was so proud to serve as the recreation outdoor recreation voice on that panel. There were about twenty members, anywhere from conservationists to private landowners to truckers to loggers to sawmill owners. And and they were just a range of perspectives and voices that we were understanding that there are other forest users and users. And and I wanna stress that community engagement was at the core of this process. There was a listening tour. There were surveys. And the the Vermont Department of Forest Parks and Rec really did a phenomenal job at listening and learning and then taking everything, compiling it, and putting it into action. And to achieve these goals, there were five main pillars that were identified, And that's where Molly is going to, really hone in and share a bit more. [Molly Willard]: Yeah. Sure. And I'll try and be more brief than we have in the past given what we have for time here. So, yeah, there's five pillars, and we're really working at looking at how to, like, support the greater forest economy in Vermont. If we and this is really important for the Northeast Kingdom. So, you know, the Northeast Kingdom has a long history of forest management that really started in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds as they were sort of the whole log drives down the Connecticut River. And it really remains having grown up here, living here, it really remains the backbone of the communities in this region. It's it's a huge part of related to people's jobs in the area are clean water, fresh air, supporting industry, tourism, and providing recreation. So we can quickly talk about each pillar and how it sort of supports the northeast kingdom. If we look at pillar one, our goal here through the road map is to have support forest management and land use. The northeast kingdom has large tracts of working forest land, both public and private. A lot some of these used chunks were sold I mean, happened back in nineteen ninety eight when Champion International sold one hundred and thirty two thousand acres. And within that hundred and thirty two thousand acres, twenty two thousand acres were became part of the West Mountain Management area, the US Fish and Wildlife Silvio County, National Wildlife Refuge, and then the Essex Timber Company, which is now owned by Weyerhaeuser. And then the Northeast Kingdom is also home to Willoughby State Forest, Groton State Forest, and many state parks. So with these huge, like, large tracts of land along with a lot of it being privately owned, it's really important, to have support around, forest management and land use in this area. The UVA program is important in supporting private landowners in the northeast kingdom to help keep forest forested and remaining working. And then also when you look at the northeast kingdom, it's really positioned in a place and given these large tracts of land that supports, wildlife corridors that help wildlife run the backbone north to south in Vermont that connects to Canada, New Hampshire, and Maine. If we look at pillar two, which is business environment and conditions, this pillar aims to strengthen the industry's ability to adapt to change and to guide government in finding creative solutions. The Northeast Kingdom is pretty isolated and low population density. It also has a high poverty rate, which is about thirteen point five percent, and that's above the Vermont average, which is at nine point seven percent. It's also been identified as a USDA REAP zone. And with that, when we're thinking about all all of that with the Northeast Kingdom, and it being eighty percent forested, you realize that those forests and forest products industry is really can benefit from innovation and adaptation for future sustainability is important. Many of the people in the northeast kingdom are relying on the forest for their livelihood, whether that be directly as foresters, loggers, or people running service businesses that rely on tourism through hunting, fishing, skiing, snowmobiling, etcetera. If we look at pillar three, which is research innovation and technology, this pillar aims to boost the pace of innovation and to seize new opportunities as they emerge. We see this being really important for certain biz businesses moving forward in the northeast kingdom, and we can look at a couple of them real quickly. We have EHB Weidman in St. Johnsbury, Vermont. They currently employ three hundred people, and they have a plan to expand that will bring sixty seven additional jobs. And this is based on them using cellulose for manufacturing and insulating materials. And so, basically, they're making insulation board made of wood pulp and water. And then we can look at Ethan Allen Furniture up in Beecher Falls, Vermont. They employ hundreds of people and have a facility there in the northeast kingdom. They have a combined heat and power system that saves money on electricity. So they use chips from managed managed forest lands to heat the facility and then use steam to power a turbine to provide electricity, lowering the company's power costs. Also in the close to the northeast kingdom is Ryegate Power Plant, which provides twenty six direct jobs and supports hundreds of loggers, foresters, and truckers in the Northeast Kingdom. So, you know, when we're thinking about supporting the road map, research, innovation, and technology, we can really see where that then supports businesses in this area that are going to support the the community communities in the northeast kingdom. Pillar four, industry reputation and market profile. This pillar really focuses on building support and appreciation for Vermont forest products in the forest economy. And so one of the things with this is that, working you know, the working forests are really important for this area. And the more that we can tell the story and support forest product management and manufacturing, the more we will be supporting the region of the northeast kingdom. A few ways that we are doing this and continue to do this to tell the story, is we can continue to invest and expand on programs such as project learning tree, programs that really support, teaching our youth about the importance of of our forest our forest landscape. And then we also wood remains an important energy and heating source in Vermont. So the twenty twenty two Vermont's comprehensive energy plan adopted a goal of meeting at least thirty five percent of Vermont's thermal demand with wood by twenty thirty. So this is just one market that also really supports, the forest products industry while providing, Vermonters with renewable thermal heat. So in general, with the road map, the more ways that we can celebrate our state's, forest management practices for renewable forest products, the more we support rural forested or rural communities in Vermont that rely on the forest like the Northeast Kingdom. And then, Abby, I think you were gonna jump in on pillar five. [Abby Long]: Yeah. Thanks, Molly. Just to, you know, summarize, pillar five, forced economy in Vermont communities really speaks to the community development, which is one of the missions of the NEK collaborative and where outdoor recreation gets to shine. So this pillar five really provides a vision for how towns, our rural towns, can maintain a strong forest culture, protecting and enriching the many ways our forests contribute to our economy and, plus, importantly, our well-being, which is where outdoor recreation becomes part of that new working landscape. We all know Vermonters and visitors value our forests for their environmental, their cultural, and economic benefits. I'll bring you back in time a little bit to sawmills. They were some of the earliest economic engines in many of our Vermont's rural towns, and which continue to benefit from the forest economy that grew up around them. We all know many of our sawmills have closed in recent years. However, I wanna point to a shining example in East Burke, Vermont. Sawmills such as Mike's Tiki Bar in downtown East Burke. You know, it serves as Kingdom Trail's main parking lot, trailhead, hosts multiple food trucks, has live music sometimes. It's a place to grab a beverage after a mountain bike ride. This is all happening with an active sawmill out back behind the tiki bar. [Jen Carlo]: Abby? Abby? The I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The the committee is just asking that, that we wrap up because it's, eleven o'clock. So sorry to cut you off. [Abby Long]: Okay. So I guess just the final sentence, you know, Kingdom Trails is a true example of where recreation provides that renewed economic vitality and operates in a complementary manner to the forest product sector. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: So I'll leave it [Abby Long]: at that. I can email my testimony to share a little bit more. But thank you all again for another opportunity. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Oh, I wanna thank you folks. I wanna thank you all coming in. All of us I'm glad to have the NEK in here. And as a not only am I very supportive, I'm also a member. So, thank you very much. Appreciate everything you do, and, I'm sure we'll see you again before the session ends. And I wanna thank everybody for coming. [Jen Carlo]: Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Thank you. Hey, committee. We're gonna move on to the next folks here. Are they ready, Linda? [Linda Leehman]: There are quite a few of them online. Okay. So candidate, Bill Emmons. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: K. We're gonna talk to the Connecticut River Watershed Farmer Alliance. And [Linda Leehman]: If Beth and Will will turn your microphone, send your video on, please. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Welcome. How are you folks today? [Mark Rogers]: I'm doing well. Thank you. And you? [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Sorry. We ran a few minutes over on that last those the last witnesses. When whenever you're ready, whoever wants to start off, just let us know. If you if you need a few minutes? [Bill Emmons]: I I I believe our executive director, Mike Snow, is gonna be the start. [Linda Leehman]: He's not joining us yet. [Speaker 10 ]: K. [Beth Kennett]: So this is Beth Kennett. I'm here, but my computer says that the host has to allow my video. So I'm here and, happy to [Linda Leehman]: There he goes. There. [Beth Kennett]: There you go. Okay. Thanks so much, Linda. Great. So thank you very much for, setting aside time to talk with us. Yes. We have planned on Mike as our executive director being the first one to speak, and then Paul Doton, our chair, and then Bill Emmons is our vice chair. And then I'm supposed to speak after that. So [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Yeah. If you want a couple minutes, we could wait a couple minutes. Whatever you guys would like to do. [Bill Emmons]: Well, I don't hate to waste time. I I I don't mind starting. I'm the vice chair. I I think what our plan was my name is Bill Evans, and I'm calling Zooming in from down near Woodstock, Vermont and in the small town of Pomfret. I think our plan was to, introduce the association itself as what we do, our mission and that sort of thing with Mike Snow, our new executive director. And, and then we were gonna, take it upon ourselves as individual farmer member board members to introduce ourselves and what we do in our farm. So I'll I'll just start with a quick howdy do, and thank you very much. I have a farm called Cloudland Farm, which has been in my family since nineteen o eight. It's been run for my family for many, many years. My father was an attorney, and before that, my grandfather was a a Bostonian and a rancher in Wyoming. So there's been agriculture in the family for quite some time. I grew up on this farm and going to a one room schoolhouse down the road all the way through boarding schools later on in life and college. So the the draw to to stay back here in Vermont on this farm was huge. So I I I I I landed back here much when I was fairly young in my in my late twenties and took over the farm. And, so I've been involved with a lot of different, agricultural organizations, presidents and vice presidents and chairs and stuff and thing. For Vermont beef producers, VPIC, beef industry council, Vermont Angus, New England Angus, on and on. So I've been involved and I just wanted to point out that that is one thing that Vermont farmers do. We are involved and and we just like to join. We like to be a part and to be part of of of what's going on in our communities, what's going on in our state, and in the nation. So at this point, we are really happy to extend our hand in friendship here to say, look. We we want you to understand what we're doing and what our concerns are and and and likewise, what what you're doing for us. We need you to understand the predicaments, the ups and downs of farming, and the value of farming to our state, which is undoubtedly a legacy. The very first pioneers that moved here, the proprietors or the lot owners that came into this town or in this state were farmers. And the state has been governed and run by farmers ever since. Most recently, though, state legislators come from various backgrounds. But originally, they were mostly farmers, and they knew exactly what to do and how to get it done. And that's what the nature of farming is all about. We're doers. We solve problems and we don't complain. So in in the in the given world that we're in now, there's a lot of things that we all are suffering from. Basically, there's an anxiety out there. I can see it. I I I I liken it to a rural decay where I see farms that are gonna run down because they just they're one breakdown, one tractor breakdown, one injector fouling away from practical disaster practically disaster or or or or bankruptcy. And it's it's a tough road to hoe, as they say, with the costs of everything going up, the health care, on and on and on. So what we wanna do here as a watershed alliance, which I I I'd like to mention also includes New Hampshire. This is a watershed led organization. And and to me, I've been in the planning world for a long time. I've chaired the Two Rivers Regional Planning Commission for God knows how long. Over twenty, twenty five years. And the local one too, the Pofford Planning Commission. So I I understand planning and all of the above. And Peter Gregory is a friend, and he probably has been in front of you before. So he's the executive director there. So I just want you to know that that that watershed is is a life in its own. The watersheds are places where where planning should take place alone. So so everybody in those watersheds are are are are there are no lines or or divisions that man has put in. Those are natural does lines. So Vermont and New Hampshire have gotten gotten together now and decided, look, we we we've got to address water quality, and everybody wants to address water quality. We don't have a huge problem on this side of the state, but it is a a large area. So we are working toward getting more members and and and we want your help. We we we want you to understand what we're up to. And and so let's try to stay in touch. I'm trying to get people to understand how they can connect with you and understand what's going on up there so that they can leave a phone message, a text, or what have you to voice their concerns. Farmers are kinda busy, and it's hard to get them to even come to our board meetings. So, we're trying to make it easier. So I'm gonna leave it at that, but I just really appreciate everything that you're doing in in on behalf of all farmers. We represent everyone. We represent bees, beekeepers, horses, every all all aspects of agriculture. So it's not just a dairy operation here or a beef. We're everybody, and we're trying to get them all on board. And it's gonna be a little a little bit of time to do it, but we're working on it. And I'm gonna let Beth take over now, and she's a a great spokesperson for the for the dairy and and the the entertain the industry of of of where where where, you know, bringing pituitarism in into the Vermont. So I'm gonna turn it over to Beth. [Mike Snow]: Thanks, Michelle. [Mark Rogers]: Thank you. [Beth Kennett]: So senators, we thank you so much for allowing us to come in and speak to you. I really appreciate your time this morning. I'm Beth Kennett. I have Liberty Hill Farm in Rochester, Vermont, and my husband, Bob, and son, David, have roe, Beth Holsteins, and it's a registered Holsteins herd. We ship to Agramark Cabot, and we have we milk about a hundred cows, and we've been here since nineteen seventy nine. We feel very blessed that our son David is working with us to take over the farm and keep it all going. And our farm has been hosting guests here, providing lodging and meals since nineteen eighty four. So forty one years of having thousands of people come and stay with us to learn what dairy farming and agriculture and Vermont is all about. I mean, they love going into the Green Mountain National Forest. They love hiking the fields. They love seeing the the authentic parts of Vermont. They come to Vermont not for a shopping mall, but for a really unique experience. I send them out to [Abby Long]: maple sugar houses, and they [Beth Kennett]: really, you know, houses, and they really, are on the mountain biking trails. It's just amazing the ways in which they are able to interact with Vermont. But they love coming and staying in our farm, eating Vermont foods, and really being a part of our community. This weekend, with the storm, all of our guests, stayed right in the village of Rochester and had a fantastic time. And as they left yesterday morning, they told me they were definitely coming back because they really enjoyed being here in the middle of snow and wind. It didn't matter, and they weren't here to ski. They were here to just be part of our farm and our community. So we have a unique opportunity with that to be able to showcase really the best of Vermont. With that being said, my husband and I helped to found the White River Partnership back in the late nineteen nineties, and I felt with that that agriculture really needed to be sitting at the table for environmental stewardship. So then I worked with Paul Dotan, who hopefully will be able to show up there soon, to create the Connecticut River Watershed Farmers Alliance, because we felt strongly that farmers need to be leaders in the environmental stewardship field and to have a seat and to be able to come and talk to you folks about what are the opportunities, as well as the challenges for agriculture in Vermont on on our side of the mountains. So the group, it really extends from the northern border down to the southern border in Massachusetts. We have a farmer down there in Whitingham that's been on our board for a number of years, really taking in that whole eastern side of the state and talking about where are the opportunities that we can be proactive, really be leaders, but also be there to address the issues of climate change and all that. I really appreciate that senator Hardy this morning talked to you about the farm security fund. Having access to funds when we have environmental impacts is really important, so I really appreciate meeting you all. Please come visit my farm. I would love to have you come and see what we do. It would be great. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Thank you, Beth. Appreciate you very much. [Beth Kennett]: Mary, do you wanna go next? Sure. Happy to. Yep. Wonderful. [Mary White]: I can jump in. Hi, folks. My name is Mary White. My husband and I are the fifth generation here on his family farm. We've been dairy farming here since eighteen ninety nine. We are currently milking in a tie stall facility. We milk around one hundred and twenty five milking head, and we have invested everything we had pretty much, but the farm on building a new state of the art robotic milking facility that will be up and running next month. We were grateful to receive some grant funding for that as well. But as a small farm, we've really, over the last ten years, dove into you know, we are involved in all the programs possible. We utilize the Connecticut River Watershed rental of a no till drew to do cover cropping on all our corn ground. So that's a great resources that this organization offers. We work with the Pay for Phosphorus program as well. That was a pilot project, started, and I believe funding is ending for that, in twenty twenty six. So would happy to provide any insight on that program and how it's going for small farms. We also worked with NRCS, right before COVID in twenty twenty to install a manure pit on our farm and that has greatly shifted our practices to be able to manage our water quality in terms of spreading liquid manure versus stacking in fields. Before we were having to spread manure every day due to not having that storage capacity. So now we're able to effectively apply nutrients, in a better way for our farm management and as well for our fields to really give the nutrients to the fields when it needs it the most. So after we harvest hay, we're able to apply that manure versus just having to stagger it. So we were very, involved as we can be in the watershed. Again, many of us wear a lot of hats. I also sit on the Farm Bureau board as well, so you'll see me frequently through there. But yeah, it's been a lot as a small farm, to try to dive into some of these programs and we're really grateful for the opportunity that this watershed group provides us and look forward to working with all of you. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Just a couple of questions, Mary. On your manure, are you injecting or are you top dressing? [Mary White]: Yeah. We're we're not injecting. We just spread liquid right directly on top of the field. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Yep. [Mary White]: We have looked into injecting. It's a from what I hear from custom harvesters, it's a lot to set up. So they're kinda hesitant on smaller farms because of that initial they're gonna set all this up and we only have, you know, a hundred acres to spread or or a hundred and fifty acres. So it which really gonna be a costing for us, but it's something we are interested in and looking at. But it seems that seems to be the biggest withhold right now for us. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: In your in your parlor that your your robotic milkers that you are doing, what is what's that gonna do for you? [Mary White]: So it's really that was a labor investment for us. It's just too much for my my husband and I to manage right now and the style milking we're doing, milking in a tie barn. Just the local labor force has disappeared. So we really made the investment knowing that we are gonna be able to be more energy efficient to increase milk production. We designed the barn around cow comfort, so we're looking for longevity from our cows. And really from a management side, it's gonna save us several hours a day. Not that we're not gonna be in the barn, but that'll allow us to do other management things, like focus on our breeding programs more and taking better care of our cattle, herd health, things like that. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Where did where did your funding come from? [Mary White]: Well, most of it from the bank. Okay. But we we did receive a small grant from the New England Dairy Business Innovation Center for modernization. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: So just a local lender? [Mary White]: Yes. [Speaker 10 ]: Yep. Well, [Linda Leehman]: cool. Where do you ship to, Mary? [Mary White]: Cab at Agamark. [Speaker 2 ]: Okay. Yep. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Well, thank you, Mary. Appreciate you coming in. [Bill Emmons]: Is there anybody else on the call? [Beth Kennett]: Yeah. Walt Walt Gladstone. [Walt Gladstone]: Good morning. Good morning. I assume you folks can hear me. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: I am. You can hear me, Walt. Good to see you again. [Walt Gladstone]: Good morning, senators. Thank you for the opportunity to chat with you briefly here this morning. I'm gonna keep it short. We've met and talked somewhat in the past, but just to refresh your memories. My wife and I started Newmont Farm thirty six years ago. We have three sons. Two of our sons are in business with us. Our oldest son, Will, is an acting partner. He manages the dairy and the help in and around the barns. My youngest son, Matt, is, heads up our field crew and and cropping needs and taking care of equipment. My wife, is the glue that holds us all together and, she does the books. We are currently milking cows on two sites here at our home farm. We're milking eighteen hundred cows and we bought a neighboring farm from Paul Knox, which is a quarter of a mile away, and we're milking five hundred cows there this morning. Our focus over the years has been on animal care, strong land stewardship practices, and in a positive work environment. We're growing over two thousand acres of corn here in the Connecticut River Valley, about a thousand acres of grass. And as you guys know, we grow about, three hundred acres of pumpkins. I guess my my main comments this morning are to reiterate having the opportunity to be at the table with you gentlemen and ladies while you're making decisions that sometimes have very, very, impactful, economic and emotional, consequences to our farm. One of the, issues that's in front of you folks these days has to do with the whole who's gonna regulate us in regard to RAPs and large farm permits. And I can't sit here this morning and and and with a solid I know the answer. This is what I think you guys should do. My concerns are that whatever you guys do and what you're looking at For example, in New York state, those guys have permits that are similar or as high as CAFO as I understand it, and and the permit isn't necessarily just CAFO. And and in that process, those guys have the ability to be up to speed. And if they're not currently right there where they need to be, there's a time for those practices to get implemented, and there's some coverage and protection against lawsuit and such. I I don't have the answer, but one thing I feel fairly confident is if all of a sudden we on this island of Vermont decide we're gonna have the the walls, to be successful so high and and the nutrient management plans are so much more restrictive, how we spread all these different factors if we just continue to become an economic disadvantage to our our neighbors. You know, I mentioned the last time we spoke, I think that when and if there's different tax incentives that you can help promote business here in the state, whether it's agriculture or or businesses, that's wonderful. Long term impacts and promotes jobs. And last but not least, incentives that help with water quality such as Mary mentioned manure pits, cover crops. Those are all practices that we want to to do, but with inflation, everything, everything just becomes so much so expensive. There's only so much money to go around. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: We spent some just a question here. We spent some time this morning going over act s sixty, an act relating to establishing the farm security special fund to provide grants for farms losses due to weather conditions. In your in your Connecticut River watershed or even for you, how was your flooding problems and were you able to obtain funds to help any to mitigate any losses? [Walt Gladstone]: We have and I appreciate that. And and that's an important program. You know, we have, as you know, the first week of July, the last two seasons, we we were flooded and we did have as much as three to four hundred acres of corn that saw water at some point. And we we had our probably biggest year of hardship in regard to flooding with the pumpkins. That money through BGAP, I was talking to Lee King this morning, I think that's her name, over the the ag department. She's helping us maneuver through that and get some funding. I appreciate that. Thank you. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Sounds good. We have some folks that have just come into the room. And anybody else on the screen that I who else on the screen would like to Jan. [Speaker 2 ]: Jen? [Jen Majesi]: Hi. Thank you so much for the opportunity. My name is Jen Majesi. I grew up I was born on the flat side of the Grains in Middlebury. Then in nineteen ninety eight, I moved to Royalton and established Fat Rooster Farm. It's a fall a a small, seventy five acre farm that's diversified. I have veggies, fruits, sheep, chickens, and about fifty acres of hay land. I work for Vermont Organic Farmers, which is the certification arm of NOFA Vermont. I really enjoy working there and and continuing to try and secure food security for all Vermonters and also to support Vermont's small farms, particularly organic, but all small farms in Vermont. Thanks. [Linda Leehman]: Thank you, [Chair Russ Ingalls]: John. Anybody else up on the screen? Are we got did we get through all of you folks? I think so. K. Well, we're gonna come around the room here. Who's in the room with you? Well, we're gonna find out. We're gonna start over here. [Linda Leehman]: It's Mike Snow. Sure. [Mike Snow]: Hi, Mike. Mike Snow. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Can you [Linda Leehman]: go over there, please? [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Yes. Yes. Just come right into the chair right now. Alright. Table, Mike. [Linda Leehman]: Everybody. We're on the way. Great. Yeah. Okay. [Mike Snow]: Everybody and also, first of all, apologize. Rookie move. We were waiting outside the Cinerdag. [Linda Leehman]: Oh, no. It's like twenty minutes. No problem. [Mike Snow]: But glad that we have folks on Zoom. So my name is Mike Snow. I am the executive director of the Connecticut River Watershed Farmers Alliance, all members behind us. And also a farmer. I live in Post Mills in Orange County, and I raise chickens. I raise vegetable beans, vegetables, and small grains. I'm gonna I wanna let our members talk to you most, but I I I wanna explain who we are as an organization. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: We'd like that. [Mike Snow]: Yeah. Good. So Connecticut River Watershed Farmers Alliance, it's a mouthful. We formed in twenty sixteen partly in in response to big changes happening with required agricultural practices and, you know, the the farmers in our watershed wanna make sure that we and that we represent ourselves because farming in the Connecticut River Valley is quite a bit different than in Champlain Valley. But our mission, our prime prime mission is to improve water quality and to help our farms, our member farmers to do that. We're entirely farmer run. Our board half of our board is here, and they're all active farmers. We farm on both sides of the river. Our watershed goes our our sort of our mandate is from the Canadian border. We have folks up in Pittsburgh, New Hampshire, which is Yeah. About as far as you can go. Yeah. It is. And down to the southern border with Massachusetts. So we're on both sides, and we're along the river. We represent at least fifteen thousand acres and many miles of waterfront riverfronts, both the Connecticut and the tributaries. And we're sort of in the low valleys and then the high the high hills areas. We, you know, we work together to share information. We host workshops on farm events. We also share equipment. And I think in general, we we try to support ourselves not just in our water quality work, but also our our farm viability and what it takes to be farmers now. And, you know, the community has changed a lot. And it's important even just having social interactions. Right? I mean, that's something we've all learned in the last four years, and that's both has to do both with what it's like to be farming now and just in general. [Charlie Gray]: I mean, we all need that. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: So we have a a it seems to me the Champlain Valley is very intensive on eradicating phosphorus. Do you have the same do you have the same, or I we've heard on your side you have more concern about nitrogen than they are phosphorus. [Mike Snow]: Yeah. That's great. So that's right. Our our water body is different. Right? Our our our waste goes down to the Long Island Sound. So in a sense, we don't we don't have our our issues aren't as in our face. Right? But in general, nitrogen is thought to be more of an issue for us. [Charlie Gray]: Yes. [Mike Snow]: And as we're saying that, you know, our we're a very different watershed in that. Our soils are different. Our geography is different. We have a lot of advantages relative to other parts of the state partly because of our highways and our accessibility, but also our soils are very different. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Right. You know that clay over there That's right. Down in Chittenden County. [Mike Snow]: Yeah. And so and the reason why we say that is because we do think that, you know, as we talk about regulation and then even sort of the interactions of of how we want to be farming, different pollutants act differently in our soils. Mhmm. And we sort of have different issues that we we think about. [Speaker 2 ]: Sure. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: All good. Well, who else would you like to have come up? [Mike Snow]: How about Paul? He's on our board chair. K. Welcome, Paul. [Speaker 2 ]: I've spoken with you the other night A few weeks ago. [Linda Leehman]: I've seen you before, sir. You're guilty. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Saw you on television. Yeah. [Speaker 10 ]: We're both the same age, so I'm glad to [Mike Snow]: say something. [Speaker 2 ]: Just to clarify one thing you brought up about nitrogen. Yep. [Linda Leehman]: They say that point four [Speaker 2 ]: to point five percent of the nitrogen that's accumulated in the Connecticut River is attributed to above all the Massachusetts border. Yep. Quite a lot more is down below. I'm not throwing stones at them, but just so you understand. Yep. [Charlie Gray]: My name like [Speaker 2 ]: you said, my name is Paul Dotan, part of Dotan Farm LLC in Barnard with my wife, Sherry, and our son, Brian. We formed that in January of two thousand five, the year after our son graduated from high school. We have a hundred and five animals, and we're milking fifty five to sixty animals. We buy three hundred ton of already chopped corn from the Connecticut River Valley. Barnard is not in the same soil type as as the Connecticut River Valley. If we get twelve to thirteen tons of the acre where we think that's good, and they don't get thirty to forty tons. So it took a long time to be chopping corn, and we thought it was a better deal to do that. Yeah. We also make about twelve hundred wrap around dams to feed those animals. Milk is ninety percent of our income, and then we do maple syrup, thirty two hundred tabs. I say we, but my son does that. Snowplowing, sweet corn, and some custom bailing and bush hog. My parents moved from Billings Farm in December of nineteen forty nine to the farm where we are. My maternal grandfather owned the property in the twenties. And then in the late forties, he sold it to somebody outside the family, and they weren't able to pay for it. So my parents took over. I have four younger siblings, all of whom are not part of the farm except, like, a brother that we don't let [Speaker 10 ]: it out. But if he has, we can we can we can [Speaker 2 ]: have him out if he needs to. I graduated from UMass Amherst. I worked at a feed, seed, and fertilizer company for several years, and then I worked on a dairy farm in Massachusetts. But I finally after everybody else matriculated through the farm, I came home in nineteen seventy eight. I've served on the AGMACC board since the mid nineties. I was also on the Vermont Dairy Guard Improvement Association board, Yankee Farm Credit Board before it became Farm Credit East. I am on the currently on the New England Dairy Milk Promotion Board. I have been on the National Milk Promotion Board. I did spend some time at home. Vermont Mail Commission, I'm on now. I was on the in the we the system service at working group. And in the town, I was on the zoning board of adjustment, and it was quite out quite obviously, it was a zoning board of nonadjustment. I've been the town moderator for thirty years, and I'm also a justice of the peace. In those days, I was also on the school board. Back on the school boards or the school boards if they weren't just regional groups. And in order for me to have done all this, I can't say enough about my family. Our son said in kindergarten he wanted to be a dairy farmer, and he still is there every day. He has a seven year old son and a four year old granddaughter who live across the field. We get to see him almost every day. I also took that. I have a three year old granddaughter who lives in South Burlington. I would just finish that sentence with grandchildren are the best. We also have a community picnic once a year. We do it the weekend before Tunbridge Fair because we tried it on Tunbridge Fair. We wouldn't get anybody. Start that in the sixties with twenty to twenty five people. That was the the entire group. We've been doing it. In the last three or four years, we've got between seventy five and a hundred people. And that's from the same area. So there's been quite quite a lot of change. Mike was quite diplomatic about we formed the, we call it. Beth Kennett turned it that way, to bring attention to the fact there's a there is an eastern side of the state and that we could use some water quality funding. And I'm happy to say that that has seemed to help. It cut to the point where I couldn't walk in for a room without somebody say, don't see. It must be he wants to move on. Okay. Even we've we've worked very closely with both the other watershed groups, and I've got been along very well with them. And we do appreciate their help. And Heather Darby was with the extension that's been helping us. And we wanna make sure that you know that, as Mike said, Portfolio includes both sides of the river. There is an adventure. I work as much as possible with Vermont Agency of Agriculture, NRCS, FSA, and a good conservation district. Like, I've said all my interesting questions. I've been glad to answer. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Thank you for a good call. Thank you very much, and thank you for your community service as well. It's always important. Would like to go back? [Speaker 10 ]: Oh, the next. Yeah. [Charlie Gray]: Alright. Look, Brad. I'm not looking at Ben tonight. We're gonna wait for No. He had the other he had the stuff back. Okay. Yeah. My name is Charlie Gray. Excuse me? My name is Charlie Gray. I'm a a farm field manager at Pull Horns Farm in South Newbury, Vermont. I'm also the vice president of the Vermont Group Investment Growers Association. Nice. I've been ten years or ten years plus on the North American Strawberry Growers Association. So I visit visited farms. Like, we do a summer tour and we do a winter conference. So I I visited farms all over the United States and seen I've seen states and other farms in both the processes that we are now trying to control water and the process of they've already started to control the water and realize that maybe there are some things along the way that they could have changed. And that's you know, I I feel a lot of privilege for you guys coming to us, letting us come over and speak to you today. And to understand that, all other states have done this before us, and that's nice to be able to learn from that. So, I mean, we implement our own regulations and laws so we can do it right. So a little bit of background about farming. I've been farming for ten years now. I'm the second generation. My parents started it in seventy eight in Hartland, Vermont. And in eighty two, they moved to Newbury, Vermont. We started with about one greenhouse and a couple acres of strawberries and a few other crops. And now forty what the forty four, forty five years later, we're now farming sixty acres. We're about twenty a little little over twenty acres of actual tillable land. And then we're doing, twenty acres on hay production, twenty acres pasture, and then cover crops. And then we're growing everything that's in our climate. So we're doing about two and a half acres of hot house tomatoes along with two about an acre of cucumbers. And then along with all the other cucurbits, so your summer squash, your zucchinis, your melons, your watermelons, and outside cucumbers along with raspberries and blueberries. And then we do about potatoes and sweet corn. We make our own straw, so that's all contained within that that sixty acres. And, over the last as I said, I I started actually farming ten years ago. Before that, I was went to Montana State University for college. And before that, I did four years in the Marine Corps. So that was sort of my got out of you know, I worked on the farm since I was young until high school. And then in high school, I went to Marine Corps in college, and then I started ten years farming. Now I'm at that or a little over a little over ten years now. I've really been growing for the last five years of, you know, my own thoughts and hands in the ground growing. And this year was twenty four was a little easier than twenty three. I mean, they're still extremely challenging, and it was very hard to pull any money out of the ground. But, this year was a little easier. Twenty three was a very hard year for us as everybody remembers. I believe it was May seventeenth. We had the abnormal frost event that, you know, swept through our state. And, actually, apple orchards and farms at higher elevations did better than us down in the valley. That was one of the coldest nights I had witnessed at the farm for the middle of May. We received we were twenty four degrees, and we were in full bloom on eight acres of strawberries at that point. So between Delaware covering a basket culture and using water to help irrigate on the Madero style, it was a long night for all of us. And single events like that is, like, is why you love and you hate farming because in that one moment, your jump to action saved the farm. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: If you [Charlie Gray]: had done anything different in that one night, we would've lost the whole crop for the year. And I know a lot of apple orchards that do over over irrigate or wind or, you know, still had still have problems with losing their crops. So we understand that sort of the gamble that we get into as farmers is that the majority of the time, you know, life's good and and, you know, it's still hard work. But but you can get through it, and then you're gonna have events like that. Lucky for the I I feel for the farmers like Joe's Brook up in Peachham, you know, and other farms in that area that really got devastated this summer that, you know, they have nothing their land got pretty much washed away, and they have nothing to really go back to. So as living down in the valley, it's you know, I'm humbled that we don't have to deal with that because in the forties in the County River Valley, the Wilder Dam came to the farmers, and they sold all the flood rights. So it's you have no if you know that that piece floods on a year to year basis, you really have no reason to plant it because, you know, whatever you you plant there is probably gonna get flooded. So a lot of it we have about fifteen acres of that that we use mostly just as hay ground for alternative peat. So we don't we don't chill it anymore because you could have a couple of, what, years in a row and never be able to get back into it. Then you then you have a it's it's one of the easiest things to take a piece of ground from sod to soil. It's really hard to get that soil back to sod. And that's sort of what I've been teaching myself over the last few years of doing small plots and trials between other cover crops to figure out the best way to get that crop. So that, you know, you it's not just, oh, you know, that needs to be sawed, so just leave it alone. Let whatever they're grow whatever seeds that are there grow. It's it's not that simple because since they came over Mayflower, they've brought a lot of invasive plants to our state that I think [Speaker 2 ]: I don't think a lot [Charlie Gray]: of people don't understand that even the simple thing as a dandelion that we think is beautiful is actually an invasive plant that came over and is now everywhere. And not at least on our side of the state, we're dealing with, thorn bush called multiflora rose that has as these dairy farmers have gone out, has taken over these pastures. And it is it is it is something that of nightmares because it has I know people understand what a it's got a reverse barb. So, like, your normal thorn bush just has a barb. This has a reverse barb. So when you walk up beside it, it hooks. It's it's very hard to do one, and we're that's something that this season we're gonna try to mitigate in our pastures to try to keep them open because there's a lot of invasive crops. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: And how does the alliance help your farm as borrowers, and and how do you work within the alliance? What's what is what have you learned by working with the alliance that helps you be a better farmer [Charlie Gray]: or does better water quality? Oh, just, yeah, getting your getting your cover crops on time in the fall so that way there's not trying to keep the least amount of, file ground seeded and not not leaving it where that was the old practice that, you know, as soon as you got your cow corn or sweet corn or any crop off, you just leave it, and it'll be there for you in the spring. And trying to really move away from that and have ground that is, you seeded with something, established seed of something. You know, going out in the middle of November and throwing seed on the ground and saying, oh, look. I seeded it and it germinated isn't the same as, you know, end of September, first of October, you know, getting that into a well established winter rye. So that way, you know, in three weeks down, the snow melts, all up field should be green and not not foul. Yep. Because the the spring flooding is what really concerns me of of your soil erosion. Right? We have enough yes. All flooding is bad, but the the spring flooding because there's nothing growing. You know, we have a we have a five month growing season here in Vermont. From May to pretty much the end of September, that's when things grow. Out outside of that window, there's not a lot of growing. So thinking that, you know, you you're any anything that you left following in the fall, it and especially with these fall, I assume we've gotten later and later until we get our first snow in the valley or or our first meal, like, winter setup. That's what I call it. You know? Well, I think this year was New Year's. I was putting in posts for fencing, and I was like, what is going on? I'm pounding in posts in the middle of the ground in in New Year's when this should be frozen solid and then shouldn't be able to so all that ground that is then left out now has multiple opportunities throughout the winter for erosions to just walk the two nutrients away. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Where are your markets as far [Charlie Gray]: as with your fruits and stuff? So we're eighty percent of retail. We sell we sell mostly out of our our farm stand, and then we do a a few farmers markets this way to Montpelier and then off the level tent. We try to cover a pretty good area between the two states. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: So you have enough product to sell and are you you get it all sold? [Charlie Gray]: Yes. We we have between between our retail and the wholesale, we have we have money. [Linda Leehman]: We we could get [Charlie Gray]: a little bigger if we want to. It's just we have a big crunch on our h we have required HOA labor to to pick our props, and those guys are amazing. They come back every year. But the the policies and the and trying to get housing inspected is is been really eating into our budgets as long and also with the I'm gonna butcher, but it's the adjusted wage survey or whatever that has been going on every year. So that's what's really killing us is so we jumped a dollar this year. Last year, we're seventeen eighty an hour for minimum wage. This year, we're eighteen eighty. The year before that, we were sixteen and jumped to seventeen another dollar. And it was a COVID year that really killed us. Us. We jumped two dollars. So we plan and we plan the farm of, okay, the is they set the h two eighty weight was gonna freeze. We could adjust it. Okay. It's not gonna go up this year. We'll adjust our drops on how much to grow. And then they were like, okay. The wages are going up two dollars. So on our scale farm, that is, you know, it's quite a bit of money to say, okay. Now what do we do? Do we grow more, which then trying to find land in the Connecticut River Valley is very, very hard, or do we raise our prices, which then is only hurting the local communities, which are already scraping by trying to put food on the table for their families. And it's like, the higher the prices go, as as sad as it is, the the cheaper the food they try to buy. So then it's you know, this this battle back and forth that we've been you know? And we're really just trying to reach out to government to put a to put a freeze on the h two a wage, at least for a couple years so we can adjust. I understand that people are gonna make a living wage. But when it's every every year, it just keeps jumping and jumping and jumping, and it's getting really hard to yeah. So it's almost to the point where we can grow the food. We can manage the business. But I don't mean to use this word here, but the bureaucracy of the programs is on small farms. Not just ours, but across the state and the country. And I see it everywhere. It's you know, we're eighteen eighty. I think California now is over twenty dollars an hour for it's it's like I you know, what and And it's I had this conversation the other day with someone of, like, how much should a unskilled laborer cost? Right? I can no longer hire kids to be WACC because I have to pay them the same as everybody on the farm. So that fourteen year old that really wants a job, I can't I can't give him a job at minimum wage because I have to pay him eighteen dollars an hour, and he has no skills. I mean, he's he's a kid, but he is the perfect young farms are the perfect jumping off point for anybody who wants a job. Because you don't really need to have any special skills because I can teach you that, or I can put you in an area that will set you up for for good work ethic and and all of that is, like, fundamentals that, you know, are crucial for building our young our youth. Mhmm. So it's it's that would be an awesome if that can clarify. If I can hire a young kid and say, hey. You know, we have three acres of greenhouses that are all individuals that need to get weed wrapped around so the grass doesn't grow up in rotten plastic and wood. So it's like, you know, I wanna be able to hire a local kid if the parents drop off for, you know, three or four hours every couple days. And Mhmm. Then I feel like my hands are tied because if we do that and we just went through we just went through a Department of Labor audit, both with the state and the federal government, and, you know, they go through every single record. And if that one kid were to be on the books and I were to have paid him a lower wage, we would have then have to back pay him at whatever the minimum wage is for as long as he'd work. And luckily, we know that now, so that's sort of what keeps our hands tied of having to hire any locals because, you know, it's it's really hard. I I wanna hire locals as much as we can. And it's you know, I especially come from Newbury, which is don't mean to say it, but our our town is dying. It's like, people don't really come to our side of the state very often except for go to drop in the summer and Mhmm. It's hard to see that. So it's, you know, it's so hard to see just that and, you know Mhmm. Glad and I appreciate you guys having us over here today. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: And Well, we appreciate you coming, everybody. Time for something else. I think we have is it Guy that's here? [Charlie Gray]: Yeah. [Speaker 10 ]: Hi, Guy. Good morning. Good morning. My name is Guy Crosby. I come from Hartland. Contrary to your belief, I live on Clay Hill Farm. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Probably. Yeah. Because there is clay So there's a little clay over there. You found that. [Speaker 10 ]: We have a farm that is built right into a Clay Hill in Blue Lake. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Yeah. [Speaker 10 ]: I've been there, and I moved to moved to Vermont in seventy six. First of a horse farm in Woodstock and now to then I moved to my current farm in eighty five. I've been there. I don't wanna say it too many times because I'll but it's almost forty it'll be forty years this this summer. I've been raising beef since the early nineties. Due to market forces out of my control. I now raise two cats. So I'm out of the beef business for the moment, but I've learned through the years that the the quality of the beef all depends on the quality of the forage that you put to them. So what I discovered is that when I turned seventy seventy three years ago, I put up a a five year plan in front where I didn't wanna use the conventional commercial fertilizer, and I didn't wanna use synthetic nitrogen as a fertilizer. So my fertilizer dealer recommended that I improve that I increase my clover crop and use a sulfate or potash to feed clover. If you eat clover, it'll fix the nitrogen that'll grow the grass. Right. So we're doing that. But the main reason that I've since I know I'm gonna have any beef right now at the moment, I've been focusing on a project that Mike Snow and Paul Dilton and another person, Annie McMillan, who was with the agency of agriculture for a long time, for twenty years. We're trying to recent set up sort of an insert. We're doing a pilot project to see if it's possible to recycle the bale ramp instead of instead of putting it in the landfill. And the fifty farms that we've that have signed up so far, all of the farmers are adamant. They are they they are deadly not not deadly, but they they hate putting the wrap into a landfill. So we have a recycling company based in Hazleton, Pennsylvania that wants the wrap. They want the exclusive right to to get our wrap, and we don't have a contract with them. But and all the farmers that have signed up, like I said, they don't wanna put the the wrap in the landfill and the landfill operators that we the two that we've we've only made two bales now where it's a little under three thousand pounds. It's a tiny percentage of what goes into the landfill. But the landfill managers are excited about it because they would like to reduce the amount of plastic that goes into the landfill. So that's what what we're trying to log on is a record of time and mileage and stuff to figure out the the infrastructure of collection and storage is a big problem. Both storage of a loose wrap before it gets put into a bale and then storage of a bale before it gets shipped to Pennsylvania. Mhmm. So these are areas that How big is your farm? Ninety five acres. Yep. And that's tillable. Mhmm. How much is tillable? Ninety five. About sixty. [Charlie Gray]: Yep. [Speaker 10 ]: And then I lease another I lease on both sides of my farm. There's is about a hundred and sixteen, hundred and seventy acres. Oh. And I also work with a local dairy farm that they're in sort of succession planning right now. So I get we work back and forth. I let them rotate crop corn on some of my acreage. Mhmm. Like Charlie was saying, it was a big problem with the invasives. So we have to you know, I do I don't wanna use glyphosate on the on the land to be able to kill. So I need you know, sometimes when they they use atrazine to kill as a weed preventative for the corn crop. But other than that Yep. Yes, sir. Do you have any questions? [Linda Leehman]: No. A question, but so thank you, mister chair. Thank you for your service, Charlie. Thank you. It's always great to hear a marine in the building. Thanks, sir. And I can't tell you how great it is for me to be surrounded by farmers here today. We haven't had anybody from an administration or an agency in today. It's just great to be in the same room with with farmers. Beth mentioned something that made me chuckle. I don't know anybody that's ever come up to Vermont, and I've been here since sixty eight, who the first time they visit a farm says, hey. Where's the nearest mall anyway? I think it just doesn't happen. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: I think that's that was a [Linda Leehman]: great statement. And Phil Emmons earlier really capped it off for me. At one point, this hundred and eighty member of general assembly had a greater majority of farmers. In fact, it probably at one point was seventy five, eighty percent farmers. And in my view, it would be nice if we could ever get back to that. We probably won't. We seem to be surrounded a lot by, you know, lawyers and people that no offense. They're employed by pushing paper around on the table, and they're not out in the field. So whether you do a dairy or maple or beef or or field crops, you're always welcome here. And I'm hoping that we can you know, we talked about the security fund. I I think it's something we're gonna seriously consider. I don't know what the number is gonna be in the end if it's gonna be five million, ten million, or has been suggested maybe twenty million. It probably won't be twenty. It always seems like this is a bad year to be asking for money. Well, when did it gonna ever be a good year? You know? But I think we'll get to some point this year where we can we can get that in the budget. And, you know, it'd be it'd be nice to be able to think that farmers could know that there's at least some backup for them to, you know, take care of the nasty weather that apparently is gonna keep coming. So that's my two cents. And of all things [Chair Russ Ingalls]: that I'm most proud about in this committee is how well they pay attention, but we are an ag committee. We're not a political committee. We're an ag committee. And we are it is nice to have just farmers in today and talk about what really what this committee is meant to be. But I wanna thank the Connecticut River Watershed Farmers Alliance for coming in. I wanna thank you for all that you do. We expect hopefully, we'll see some of you back. We've seen some folks already. Walt's been in a few times already, and Yeah. Always Mary, always always good to see you folks. We're here we're here to serve you. And anytime that anything arises, let us know. If you think we're off track on something, let us know. Or if you think that we should be doing something different or paying attention to something, just let us know. We're we're here to serve you, and we wanna thank you all for coming. [Beth Kennett]: Thank you very much for having us. We really appreciate it. We really wanted to, meet you and and offer our services as a resource to you for any questions. As you can see, we have a really diverse group of farmers, and we have, you know, experience in different areas. So we really would appreciate you considering us as a resource to you. So thank you so much for your time. [Chair Russ Ingalls]: Well, thank you very much,

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