SmartTranscript of House Government Operations-2025-02-26-1:00PM

[Speaker 0 ]: It's new. [Speaker 1 ]: And we're live. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Good afternoon, committee. After our lunch break, we are here to hear a bill introduction of two forty four and act relating to state contracting standards for advertising. And I will invite representative Shay Waters Evans, a sponsor of the bill, to start it off. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Thank you. Could you all introduce yourselves? Just kidding. Yeah. Representative Rachelson is actually gonna start, and she's on Zoom. Oh, she is. I'm sorry. I Yes. We're co sponsor. She's gonna [Chair Matthew Birong]: get going. Mind your head, sir. So alright. Representative Barbara Rachelson, you may start us off. [Witness Barbara Rachelson]: Thank you, and thank you very much for allowing me to Zoom in. I will be back with you all in a day or so, but I am with my brand new grandchild. So [Chair Matthew Birong]: Awesome. So congrats. [Witness Barbara Rachelson]: So much for inviting us here today to talk with you about h two forty four. I am going to keep my remarks brief. We have an amazing lineup of, witnesses, and I want, to make sure that you have a chance to hear from them. I'm just gonna briefly tell you why I introduced this bill with representative Waters and why, it's important, and why I think it is an amazing win win type of of legislation. So ironically, back in the summer, I was reading Seven Days, and it had an article in there referencing the UVM journalism conference, which really caught my attention. While the data in the article, and I will forward to you my testimony and the links to the articles after. Discuss the state of local news, both in Vermont and in our country. It was not surprising, but it was extremely alarming. Knowing that as we lose journalists and local news outlets, more and more people will turn to Facebook and TikTok for their news is definitely of concern. I was, in particular, intrigued by rebuilding local news, which is a organization that you'll be hearing from. They were one of the organizations that had presented at this conference, which I cannot believe I did not have a chance to go to. I reached out to apologies for the dog barking, and was able to meet with staff there via Zoom who walked me through many of the model policies and laws from their website that other states and municipalities had passed or introduced. And I decided for sure that I wanted to see what we could do in Vermont and put in a few bill requests for these model bills. Many of these bills have a price tag attached to them. This one does not, which is very exciting. We spend a lot of money as a state advertising right now. And this bill, which I understand you'll get a walk through at some point and hear more about, would make a requirement that a certain percentage of that advertising be done with our local media outlets or national outlets that have a significant presence or regional outlets that have a significant presence in Vermont. So it does not cost more money. It's spending our money wisely. There would be, obviously, tourism dollars spending you know, advertising those in the North Avenue news doesn't make sense. But for many of the advertisements that the state does, this has worked in other places, and I'm excited for you to get to hear about it. I was I had a chance to reach out to, Seven Days and Richard Watts at UVM, after I had met with the folks at rebuilding local news and learned that they had been getting organized to I'm just gonna move here for a moment so you don't hear the dog as much. So they had been gotten organized to try to work on these issues. And I learned that our colleague, Shay, was working on this. So it was exciting, and we were able to connect and cosponsor this bill together. So with that, I want to turn my attention and put on mute so that you can hear the great folks that are about to testify. And I'm happy to answer questions. I will send you my written testimony and will also give you the links to some really great articles. And thank you for considering it. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Thank you, representative Rachelson. Brett Waters Evans, would you like to [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Yeah. I'm ready now. I'm gonna be fairly short because I think it's important that you hear other people's voices. If if some of you might not know, I was a local, reporter and, newspaper editor in the town where I lived, which was exciting and always an adventure for about a dozen years before I ran for office. And, I really cannot overstate how important local news is for democracy as a whole. Like, on a municipal level, on a state level, national level, like, news reporting is is a it's just the most important thing, I think, for make sure that I miss Campbell, even if it's like for it or I used to tangle with our zoning board sometimes when I was a reporter. Just it's it's healthy. Right? And, unfortunately, the state of local news is not that healthy right now, especially in Vermont. I did a ton of research in the fall looking into ways that other states have dealt with this, which I rebuilt local news, looked at, talked to senators and representatives from other states, see what kind of things work for them. There's some really big ideas that we are not doing right now that maybe someday we can do that are really, you know, nationwide impactful kind of, you know, let's sue Google or something, but that's really not where we can start right now, and I understand that. Although, sometimes I would like to. So what I think the the good thing about this bill, as representative Rachelson mentioned, it just takes the money that we're already spending as a state on advertising and directing it toward local news. The goal being to make sure that local news outlets are getting this advertising money to sustain them. I briefly started my own newspaper, and I was and worked at a nonprofit as the editor before that. And a lot of time is spent fundraising, and, it's sketchy. You you don't always know what you're gonna get, when you're gonna get it, and as you know, reporters shouldn't also be trying to figure out how to pay for their reporting. So, like, this just makes sense as representative Rachel said said. Like, really simply, we're taking money that we already have, that we've already allocated for advertising. We're just directing it toward Vermonters, toward Vermont owned businesses, toward local businesses. And I'm sure you all read your paper. In Charlotte, we are lucky enough to have two print papers, and people, they read those. And it's hard to to get money to sustain them, but I think it's vitally important. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. [Chair Matthew Birong]: I have one quick question. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Can you [Chair Matthew Birong]: just give us an example of the advertising that you're talking about? [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Sure. Is there someone else who wanted to speak to that or is going to speak to that? [Chair Matthew Birong]: And if so, I'll hold my question. Yeah. [Witness Paul Heintz]: I think [Witness April Barton]: April, if I could just say, is prepared to address that in her remarks. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Yeah. Then then we'll we'll wait. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Yeah. I just wanted to tell you why I was so excited about it, why I think it's so important. Thank you. [Member Philip Jay Hooper]: Are we talking about paper, or are we talking about local digital also? [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Any and all. Nope. Broadcast, print. [Witness April Barton]: See all the above. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Internet, [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: sky rating, however. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Alright. Thank you. Thanks. Next time you joined the call, would you like to introduce yourself to the committee, and would you like to hear in introductions from us? [Speaker 9 ]: I would love to, but I think [Witness April Barton]: I know most of you. So I'll I your our time is short, so I'll I'll, I'll just dive right into it. That works for you all. Thank you all so much for having me here today. I really appreciate it. And especially thank you to representative Waters Waters Evans and representative Rachelson for supporting this bill, introducing this bill. For the record, my name is Paul Heintz. I've been working, in and around news organizations as a reporter and editor in Vermont, for most of the last two decades, starting with the Bravo Borough reformer, more recently at seven days, and then VT Digger. Now a freelance reporter and an adviser to the University of Vermont's Center for Community News. That's the organization that put on the conference last summer that representative Rachelson discussed, and it's been a great forum for discussing ideas out there to strengthen the local news, industry. I'm speaking today on behalf of a broad coalition of Vermont news organizations that have been searching for ways to support what you all know is an imperiled industry. The coalition includes statewide news outlets such as WCAX, Vermont Public, and BT Digger. It includes small community weeklies such as the Barton Chronicle and the White River Valley Herald. It includes legacy daily newspapers like the Rutland Herald, the Bennington Banner, locally owned news outlets, newspaper chains, and nonprofits like the Bridge in Montpelier, Commons in Brattleboro, and the Waterbury roundabout. It includes broadcasters from around the state including small radio stations that serve each of your communities. What unites us all is a belief in local media and a fear that if we don't take action soon, these organizations may not be able to share essential information with Vermonters and help safeguard our democracy. In the last twenty five years alone, according to a recent UBM study, Vermont's lost seventy five percent of its jobs in the newspaper industry. And not surprisingly, rural communities have been hit hardest. Our coalition studied various ways the state could help bolster rebuild journal to help bolster Vermont journals. Excuse me. You'll hear in a moment from Laurie Henson from rebuild local news, which has worked with other jurisdictions on various solutions, including tax credits and subsidies. We know those would not fly in Vermont's current budget environment, so we are instead bringing you a modest Vermont scale solution that would not cost an additional dime. That's why this proposal has drawn tripartisan support include including from a pair of statewide officeholders, lieutenant governor John Rogers and secretary of state Sarah Copeland Hansens. With h two four four, we are asking only that the state of Vermont practice what it preaches and buy local. Our research suggests that the state may be spending, may be sending millions of advertising dollars out of state, in many cases to social media and search companies such as Google, Facebook, and the platform formerly known as Twitter. Why would Vermont spend its limited resources on these Silicon Valley corporations when it couldn't invest that money instead in news outlets in Milton, Manchester, and Randolph. Precisely how many state advertising dollars are leaving Vermont is not entirely clear as my colleague April Barton will explain in a minute. That lack of trans transparency is part of the problem this bill seeks to address. By requiring Department of Buildings General Services to provide an annual summary of our advertising spending, we can better ascertain whether that money is being spent wisely. We don't believe this proposal will radically reshape the state advertising process, and we wanna work with you to address reasonable concerns. That's why from the get go, we've suggested exempting tourism related advertising because we know at times the state is specifically seeking to reach those who are not served by our organizations. But when the state is trying to reach Vermonters, we think we're best positioned to help. Vermonters listen to our stations on the road. They watch our newscast at night. They They read our papers when they arrive in the mail or at the local store. Some, including public people's room, even hit the refresh button on our websites multiple times a day. We are the ones prepared to deliver life saving information during floods. We're the ones doc checking information, covering local select board meetings, and letting folks know what's up for discussion on town meeting day. We're the ones trying to let your constituents know what you're debating in this very committee room. On its own, h two forty four will not solve the crisis facing local news, but we believe that every dollar counts, and we don't have any time to waste. For that reason, we respectfully ask that your committee consider this bill as quickly as it possibly can. Thank you. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. Any questions for mister Hynes? [Member Philip Jay Hooper]: Sorry to be okay. Yeah. But you mentioned I'm looking for a definition of what local is because you mentioned specifically CNAX, which used to be, quote, unquote, a local union station and now has gone somewhere else. Mhmm. News coverage has changed. Where is that line kind of being drawn? What is it? What is it? [Witness April Barton]: It's a really great question, and it's one that we we've talked about as a group, because defining media has always been one of the most challenging things. I was in here some years ago, discussing a media shield bill that became media shield law in Vermont. And and that was one issue that came up time and time again. How do you define who a reporter is, who a journalist is? And it can be a little bit careless because you don't want, as the government, to be in the business of overly defining who counts and who doesn't count. So for the purposes of this bill, we've taken a big tent approach. And we have said, essentially, if you're a a media organization in Vermont and the bill spells out, some specific definitions, we we want you to be included in this. And so that means that, organizations like the Burroughs and Free Press or the Rutland Herald or the Times Artists, that are owned by out of state organizations but employ journalists in Vermont and serve Vermont readers, we said they should be included. For broadcasters, we said, you know, sort of an easy and elegant solution was if you hold the FCC license and you're in Vermont, then you should be included. So that includes radio stations. It includes TV stations. It would include both locally owned and ones owned by companies outside the state. But the point is that they're in Vermont. They're serving Vermont, serving Vermonters. So it's it's medium agnostic. It's also economic model agnostic. We're not just looking to help nonprofits, not just looking to help for profits. It's it's all of the above because, you know, I think we all believe that you really need a broad and diverse media ecosystem to provide the information and the diversity of views that monitors really desire. There's if you look [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: at the bill on the bottom on page three, it defines local news organization. I won't read it to you, but it's there with all the specifics of what you just said. [Speaker 0 ]: Approximately how much, dollars are we talking that the state spends in advertising? [Witness April Barton]: So that, believe it or not, is not really known. And that is, I think, a really important part of this bill as well. You know, to the best of our knowledge, advertising is every department, every agency does it a little bit differently. It's theoretically, if I understand this correctly, through BGS, but each each entity of state government is spending its money differently. So April, who's gonna speak in a moment, spent a lot of time trying to get to the bottom of that question. We have some preliminary estimates. But we'll go into more detail here. But we believe the state spent at least seven and a half million on advertising in the twenty twenty four fiscal year, but it that's probably an undercount because it's sort of accounted for in different ways. And so one, I think, really important part of this bill, is the last section which, requires BGS to submit a report each year, to you all summarizing advertising services purchased by the state, etcetera, etcetera, so that we know so we have a better sense of, you know, where that money is going and how it's being spent. And I think that could help inform future discussions as well. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. Additional questions from the committee? If not, we have a slightly different order on our agenda, but you're referring to April. So we'll call April Barton next, please. Thank you. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Just gonna go back. Bye. [Witness April Barton]: Hello, committee. Thanks for having me. I'm April Barton. I'm representing UVM's Center for Research on Vermont. And like Paul said, I spent a lot of time trying to look at data of how, the state of Vermont is spending its advertising dollars and where those where those funds are going. And so I did pull, as Paul also mentioned, I pulled, from the state of Vermont's portal for public payment information, any record that had advertising or marketing in the name for fiscal year twenty twenty four. And what I found Okay. Total what's that? Oh, I thought I heard somebody say something. Sorry. [Speaker 0 ]: No, thank you. [Witness April Barton]: Total expenditures I saw were about seven point five million. And of that, Vermont vendors and businesses operating in Vermont, they made up about four point five million of that. And then non Vermont vendor vendors made up about two point nine million. So if we're looking at percentages, Vermont vendors made up about sixty one percent and non Vermont vendors made up about thirty nine percent of the money that was spent on advertising in twenty twenty four. I will say tourism and marketing is included in these numbers. And as we discussed before, tourism marketing certainly is spending a lot of their money outside of the state. So that's something to be considered. And these are just rough estimates. There are definitely holes in the data. And there are definitely opportunities to increase transparency in the way these are logged. For instance, advertising agencies, we can see how the state of Vermont is spending money with advertising agencies, but then and see those total amounts, but we're not seeing what the the agencies are then going and spending that money on and whether they're spending it on Google or Facebook or other outside of Vermont entities. So we can't track that in the way it's recorded right now. And secondly, there are about ten percent of the money of the records actually, were listing the state of Vermont itself as the vendor. And those, occurrences were sometimes when an agency was using a purchasing card or if money was being given back to the human resources department because they were placing job ads on behalf of that state agency. But because it doesn't say an actual vendor, it's hard to even know where that money went. I tried going to the individual state departments and agencies and requesting information, and I got limited success getting back information for those. So there are those holes. And like I said, we can increase some transparency. The other thing that I noticed is that the state of Vermont tends to spend a lot of money outside of Vermont for creative houses. Those are the ones who may be creating ads, video ads, print ads in advertising campaigns, also creative houses, and then I just lost my place. Yeah. So creative houses, but also also advertising agencies that are outside of the state as well. And so we do have a lot of those companies here in Vermont the state could be spending money with. And even some of these local news organizations that are represented in this group are capable of creating this type of advertising content or making national and local buys at their organization. And so those are some of the things that I noticed. I'll address real quick. He had a question about the types of advertising that Vermont is doing and job ads. I mentioned lottery has quite a few ads. You may have seen also the unclaimed property ads with Mike Pichek and Tom Mesner. That's another form of advertising that the state, they're creating that content, but then they're also advertising it on the local media stations. Sports betting and gambling, you'll see ads for those. Also, the health department has run a bunch of ads, when there was COVID also, you know, when extreme temperatures, smoking cessation. So you'll see some of these initiatives, that are being, advertised across media, but also the tourism and marketing department of course, is spending a lot of money on Google ads, trying to get people to Vermont and other publications and media outlets that are outside of Vermont to try to advertise the state and bring them in. So I I'm still here if anybody else has questions about the data, but that's my statement for now. Thank you. [Chair Matthew Birong]: I do have a question. You just mentioned tourism, so that's going to be exempt from this particular law. Correct? Is that what I heard? Yes. [Witness April Barton]: I'm not sure if it's going to be exempt because it's okay. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Yes. Evans is nodding her head. So how does it how would this differ in the future if this law was passed? Because right now, if I'm searching on Google or looking at a web site, I'll see, like, smoking cessation ads, for instance, or sports betting ads. Would those be eliminated on those particular types of sites that are kinda nationwide Internet sites? [Witness April Barton]: I mean, it depends on who the state of Vermont wants to advertise with. You could do those same ads locally, or you can use a national firm to place those ads in different places and non streaming devices and things of that nature. But you also do have local advertising agencies who are capable of placing in both as well. [Chair Matthew Birong]: So if if the state of Vermont wanted to advertise on those types of platforms, this is what I'm getting from this, then they could go to a Vermont based advertising agency and ask them to do the work to put those ads on those types of platforms. Because I don't see those ads going away because they're really effective and they reach a lot of people because a lot of people use their devices. So it's just ensuring that somewhere along the line of Vermont vendor is getting compensated for placing those ads. Is that correct? [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Yes. Also, they're not gonna go spend all of their money, so they still have twenty percent of their budget to spend however they wish. And if they would like to spend that on social media sites or, you know, games or or whatever that is, then they are they could do that. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. Any additional questions for for a witness from the committee, rep Hooper? [Member Philip Jay Hooper]: Well, expanding on the conversation that you just had, that sort of is the thing that I wonder, particularly when you get down to the Facebooks and the other media like that, you get to sort of pick your audience. Mhmm. So money that you spend could stay here even if you're on some mega platform in terms of the advertising, but the creation and everything else goes simple itself. [Witness April Barton]: And I think the local news outlets are hoping that they'll get part of that as well, that some of these ads can still be on the local TV station, radio station, in the papers as an ad in addition to using Facebook and other platforms. [Speaker 0 ]: I think we're ready. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Okay. Just in the interest of time. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you very much. So our next witness, we were a little bit out of order. Laurie Henson, please. [Witness Laurie Henson]: Hello. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to talk to you all today. You have a fantastic coalition in Vermont. And so, it's been a real pleasure to work with everyone. And I'm, especially pleased to, offer my support for our support at Rebuild Local News for the bill that reps, representatives Rachelson and Waters Evans have introduced. H two forty four is an important bill for Vermont, and it I'll try to talk a bit about how it compares nationally to what's happening. I manage the advertising portfolio at Rebuild Local News. We're a national nonpartisan nonprofit organization. We represent more than three thousand newsrooms across the country. And together with our member organizations, we advance public policies that counter the collapse of local news. And we especially focus on revitalizing community journalism and strengthening democracy. And so I I hope that the committee will consider h two forty four and and advance it. The crisis that you're facing in Vermont and the local news organizations and communities in your state, they are well known, they're ongoing, and they are a threat to democracy. They are not unique. This is a national problem and it's particularly dire for small and medium sized communities, some of which are now news deserts without a source of local news coverage altogether. Vermont has not been spared from the crisis. The state lost a daily newspaper and three weekly newspapers over the past year. That's according to Northwestern University, which measures news deserts. Between twenty thirteen and twenty twenty three, Vermont lost more than half of its journalists. And you heard Paul talk about seventy five percent at newspapers. So so it is a crisis in our judgment. And so, what we also have learned is that when communities lack local journalism, you know, there are researchers that have studied the effects of more than two thousand newspapers closing since two thousand and four, and we are still losing newspapers at a rate of two and a half closures on average per week. What we know is when a a news organization closes, voting rates decline, municipal borrowing costs go up, government waste increases, citizens tend to feel less connected to their communities, polarization, political polarization goes up when everything in the news is nationalized. Even news organizations that have weathered this crisis are doing so with fewer journalists. Newspapers nationally have lost over half of newsroom employees since two thousand four. So there are too few journalists that are stretched too thin right now, and that's true in Vermont as well. Stretching newsrooms to the breaking point is especially common at hedge fund owned newspapers, which control now about fifty percent of daily newspaper circulation. So keeping news local and supporting and sustaining those organizations is really critical. Unfortunately, the challenges that are facing communities across Vermont are not the exception. What is exceptional though is h two forty four is taking a really unique approach to addressing these problems. And so what is good about this, bill is that it recognizes local news as an essential public good. And so, it's it's an innovative and I think a very hopeful policy approach that, supports news organizations through a government advertising set aside as you've heard from others. This is really just about being intentional with the state spend, not increasing the state spend. And it allows news organizations ultimately to deepen and expand their coverage of essential civic and community life across Vermont, while also importantly for us, protecting those organizations' editorial independence. And so the government is not determining, it's not picking winners and losers. It is applying a common standard across the board for local news. So Vermont would lead the nation in adopting this approach. There are other states that have introduced and heard bills of this kind, and they are in various states in the legislature, various phases of the legislative process. And but what makes h two forty four really, I think, innovative is that it requires government agencies, to be intentional about how they're distributing ad placements more equitably among Vermont community news outlets. And so that broader distribution is especially helpful to small and mid sized news organizations. It requires government ad agencies and advertising agencies to be more transparent as you've heard about where the advertising dollars are spent. And it also requires the engagement of a third party to ensure that the policy is being followed fairly and consistently by the government, by advertising agencies, and news organizations. And you have a really important and valuable asset with University of Vermont. And so I think that's a really important aspect of the bill that it produces a firewall between government and advertisers and news organizations. So when we talk about the bill protecting the independence of news organizations, it means that when government advertises for things like job recruitment, public health information, government services, they do it the same way they do it today. They they work with an ad rep. And so this is a known process. This is not, as Paul was saying, this is not about shaking up the entire system. What's also important as what the bill does not do, h two forty four does not impact how agencies advertise their messages. It doesn't affect the content of what the government ads, say. And, those decisions are still retained entirely within the state agencies in collaboration with their marketing and ad professionals. The bill does not restrict where government is allowed to advertise. Agencies can still choose the media that best connects them with the audiences they want to reach, whether that's, you know, through different mediums, broadcast versus print versus digital, or social media even. There are a number of ways that local media can insert itself into the process of social media advertising so that it is getting some of that dollar, and also vetting, those ads for quality, and the trust of the audiences that they have online. So again, there are important firewalls in this bill that protect the independence of news agencies. And, so this eighty percent, spend still leaves room for for government agencies to place ad spending where they think it it is the best value. So news organizations are already adapting for the last two decades. They're being innovative and adaptive to the crisis that faces them. And this is just a way for government to provide a cost effective leg up to them for the important work that they're doing. Also, there is precedent for this historically in the United States. So, we've seen all the way back to seventeen ninety two, the postal act, which, gave favorable, distribution rates to newspapers and to the press. We've seen other government assistance in the form of public broadcasting and, you know, other kinds of considerations because of the special role local news plays. So we've also seen this particular policy with the ad set aside, result in really promising, revenue for small, community and ethnic organ news organizations in New York City that adopted this policy in twenty twenty. The last report we got was that about seventeen million dollars had been generated for ethnic and community media in New York City. It is its own sort of universe there. But, but I think Vermont would see similar kinds of positive effects for local news revenue, with this kind of policy. So with that, I'm happy to answer any other questions. But I hope that the committee will support this bill. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. Any questions [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: for our witness? [Chair Matthew Birong]: Okay. Well, thank you very much. We'll go on to Kathy Resmer. [Speaker 0 ]: Hi there. Hi, everybody. I'm Kathy Resmer. I'm the can you hear me? I'm the deputy publisher of seven days and one of our employee owners. I'm talking with you from our Burlington office. Thank you so much for the opportunity to appear before your committee today. Hopefully, you're familiar with seven days. We deliver thirty five thousand copies of our free weekly newspaper to more than one thousand locations in Northern and Central Vermont every Wednesday. You should have, some papers in Montpellier by now. And all of our content is also online. You can read it on your phones as well. In addition to journalism, seven Days produces events, including the annual Vermont Tech Jam, Career Expo, homebuyer seminars. We do a youth talent show. We organize the Good Citizen Challenge, which is a nonpartisan civics project for, k through eight students. The company got its start in nineteen ninety five, thirty years ago this year. Founders Pamela Polson and Paula Routley were two journalists who set out to create the arts and culture weekly that they wanted to read. Initially, they covered local music, theater, books, film, visual art, and food. Back then, there were a lot of other places to find local news, including daily newspapers like the Burlington Free Press, which, at that time, employed dozens of reporters and editors. That was still true way back when I started writing for seven Days in two thousand one, but the state's media landscape has changed in the last couple decades as, some of the other speakers have mentioned. Around two thousand eight, when the free press started cutting its news coverage, seven Days stepped up to help fill the gap. Over the last seventeen years, we have built a team a seasoned team of news reporters and editors alongside our team of culture writers. And today, seven Days employs twenty full time reporters and editors along with a team of freelance writers, critics, and consulting editors. In twenty twenty four, seven Days news reporters alone wrote more than seven hundred stories. That includes late breaking election coverage and in-depth features, like, for example, Derek Brower's cover story on Decker Towers in Burlington last February. He and photojournalist James Buck documented the ways that Decker's elderly and disabled residents were forced to protect themselves as the public housing project became a de facto homeless shelter. And Derek's perceptive eyewitness reporting helped seven days it helped us win the newspaper of the year from the New England Newspaper and Press Association, which is is great. But more importantly, it jolted city officials into action. Derek has now written five follow ups since, and the last one was just about how conditions at Decker Tower have improved. Last March, seven days was the only Vermont media outlet to send a reporter to New York City to see an overdose prevention site in action while the legislature debated whether to allow them here. Back in November, you might have seen a deep dive that we published on Vermont skyrocketing health care costs. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Just so [Speaker 0 ]: you know, these thoroughly reported and readable stories, they're our specialty. They open hearts and minds, and they sometimes influence public policy. In twenty nineteen, seven days tackled the opioid crisis with Hooked, you might remember. It was a year long series we did. In twenty twenty three, we focused on the causes and effects of the state's housing shortage in a series called locked out. That same year, we published Joe Sexton's shocking sixteen thousand word expose on the abuse of young people at Woodside Juvenile Rehabilitation Facility. On the culture side, we maintain a comprehensive music, visual art, and events calendar. We we publish previews of shows that you don't wanna miss. We do hundreds of spotlights and profiles of local businesses, especially through our seven daisies readers picks contest, which you might have seen those daisies plaques at businesses all around the state. We pull off ambitious culture projects too. We sent eleven different reporters across the state to document last year's eclipse. We sent Mary Ann Lichtene to Broadway to profile Bramanter Shaner Taub. Shaner Taub, who who created the musical Sups, which won multiple Tony Awards. We aim to inspire Vermonters to encourage them [Witness Barbara Rachelson]: to get off the couch [Speaker 0 ]: and get involved. And this kinda enterprise journalism takes time and money. These big stories require weeks of research, and each one goes through editors, proofreaders, and sometimes lawyer. Journalists are cheaper than lawyers, but they're not free. Editorial salaries alone cost us one point two million last year. It's our biggest single expense. Add another half million plus for printing, more than a quarter million for health insurance. That doesn't begin to cover rent, equipment, libel insurance, mileage, or the rest of our staff. Most of that money goes right back into our communities, making it possible for our employees to live here by volunteer for local organizations. You know, for years, seven days paid for everything with revenue for local advertising As many of the Vermont media organizations can attest, that business model is still working, but not like it used to. Our local retailers have been undermined by Amazon. Many restaurants haven't recovered from the pandemic. Other businesses are still reeling from devastated floods. Some are spooked by all the changes and the uncertainty in Washington, DC. We also have a dizzying number of competitors. That includes social media giants, like the ones we've talked about here today. None of I just wanna make the point that none of those platforms creates content or verifies it before publishing. None of them organizes or sponsors local events or trains young people to work here, the way we do. None of them put millions of dollars back into circulation in the Vermont economy. So Vermont Vermonters understand why it makes sense to buy food from local farms or products from local businesses, and we need that to extend to local advertising channels channels as well. Sorry to go over a little bit, but thanks thanks again for your time. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. No worries. Any questions for Kathy? Alright. Not seeing any questions from the committee, we'll move on to the next witness. Angelo? [Witness Kathy Resmer]: Yes. Hi. Thank you very much. Nicely done, Kathy. I I think, first of all, for the record, my name is Angelo Lynn. I'm the editor and publisher of the Addison County Independent, and I've been here for the last forty one years. It's been a while. Those years have included serving as president of the Vermont Press Association a while back, as well as being president of the New England Press Association, of which I'm still on the on the board there. Those roles have put me in constant contact over the last four decades, with many of the newspapers in Vermont and also so I have a fair sense of what we're looking at, the struggles that are out there that we're all going through. And I can tell you, a couple of things today, and that is first that the news industry continues to face strong uphill wins, and that includes most of Vermont's community newspapers. That's dailies and weeklies, for profits, nonprofits, print, digital only. That's all of us. You know, it's not easy out there. And we're out doing what we can to get every dollar that we can through the door so we can fund our operations and do the service that we do for our communities. The second point that I'd like to make is that local media continues to be one of the best ways to reach, the local audience that's interested in news about the state or advertising about the state. And it's because that's what, you know, we they read us first, and they trust us, which is the other thing. That's one of the basic points that Cathy was just make making is we do all this work and we're read well by our consumers because they trust us, and they trust that we're gonna do the best thing for our communities and the best thing for the state. I don't think that's probably true of Facebook and x and, Google, at least in terms of how they view Vermont. I'd also like to say that what Laurie from Rebuild Local News was saying can't be emphasized enough. We have lost seventy five percent of our journalism jobs in the state for the last twenty five years. And we've seen a handful of weeklies go out of business and The Daily go out of business. Brown Brothers daily went from six days a week down to two twice a week. So these are, you know, these are struggles. They're real. And while we're not looking to make a lot of money or even even when we process all that, how much money is gonna get here, I think the principle is to shop local. Support what we can, build up the communities as we can, help us do our job, and and be intentional when the agencies make that decision of where to advertise. And that's just the basic ask. A huge commitment here. It's just be intentional. Think local first if you can and make good on that promise. I I would just note that a lot of our papers are doing, you know, fairly well. I mean, I say, contradict myself a little bit. We're still here, And the reason we're still here is because we're supported by our communities. And that goes for we have about thirty I think thirty something weeklies and seven dailies left in the states, something like that. We represent really small towns, a nonprofit in Brandon, all the way up to, you know, seven days with its bigger outfit. But, you know, in in Middlebury at the Addison Independent, we have a staff at twenty. We almost have ten people devoted to news here at The Independent. And it costs money, real money. So when we're looking to get even, you know, ten or twenty thousand dollars that might come our way, that's not that's no small deal for us. And so these would be important things to consider. So in short, the the message from our point is to buy local. It's not just the right thing to do, but it is but it's also one of the most effective ways to reach the local marketplace, to reach the fair monitors that you're trying to do. By the way, I would assume most of you or many of you are employers. When you're advertising for position, they need to do a couple things. They need to be probably locally based because if they're not if they're coming from out of state, let's try to find housing for them. So, you know, reaching Timbuktu, then they a lot of good. And then if they don't know the state well enough to understand our winters, they better love winters here because, you know, that's who we are and that's what we embrace. And what we find when we advertise for our own local jobs is local people that understand the state, Those are the ones that you actually end up hiring and they stay here and they build the become part of your team for a longer period of time. So I would say a couple of things for the employment ads. Local advertising is your most effective advertising. You know, the other points have been well made. Appreciate the comments from the other folks that have testified and what Paul said earlier that what unites us all is a belief in local media and its effectiveness. And with passage of h two forty four, the hope is that little extra will keep us all serving our communities for the next generation. But to that end, we appreciate your consideration and support of the bill. Thank you very much. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you very much. Any quick questions? Because we are running a little bit behind right now. K. We'll call our next witness, Wendy Mays. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Hi. Thank you for having me. My name is Wendy Mays. I'm the executive director of the Vermont Association of Broadcasters. And in the interest of time, I'm gonna try to keep this at sixty seconds. I am not going to read from the prepared testimony that I did submit. So if you're interested in it, please do read it. But a lot of it was exactly the same thing that the coalition members just told you, and I agree wholeheartedly that the the I'd like to use my forty five remaining seconds to tell you a story about WTSA AM and FM radio in Brattleboro, Vermont. This radio station is in a place in Brattleboro where there's only the Brattleboro reformer and the commons, which is the nonprofit paper. There is no broadcast television station down there. They actually get a lot of their news from Boston because of that's just the way that it is. So when people are looking for local news, they go to the Brattleboro Reform or the Commons or WTSA. And it's been around for seventy years. They used to have two full time people dedicated to news gathering, and now they're down to one part timer. And it's simply because the cost of running a radio station has been increasing over time, whereas, the revenue from advertising has been steadily decreasing. And this is a trend that we're seeing all over the place. And I'm gonna tell you just really quickly, because this is the perfect example of what's wrong. So I'm just gonna say it. In October, I wrote a letter to, the Department of Liquor and Lottery, when I found out that, a company that they had won the contract for Vermont Liquor and Lottery, Fuze Ideas, they severe they they went from severely cutting back to now a full stop of buying radio advertising in Vermont's unrated markets, which meant that Vermont Lottery ads were no longer heard on the radio in nearly fifty percent of the state. So I was letting Department of Liquor and Lottery know this and pointing out to them that, you know, whereas the shiny new toy of digital may look good on paper, it loses its luster when you see how it affects real people. And, had asked them if they would, you know, reconsider which they did, thank goodness, and talked a few ideas, but that's the perfect example of what's happening. If they contract with a an advertising agency outside of the state, they don't know what's happening here, and they're making decisions all about shiny new toy and not realizing that this money could be so much better served, keeping it local with the the the newspapers, the radio, the television stations, that are a fabric they're completely weaved into the fabric of the communities that they serve. I know I went a little over sixty seconds, but [Chair Matthew Birong]: We appreciate your rep. Thank you. Any questions for Wendy? [Speaker 0 ]: That's fine. K. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Thank you. Good. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you very much. Really informative. Thank you all for being here. Unfortunately, we have to switch gears and hear another new Phil intro. So thanks for your time. Thank you. You. Who's Caitlyn? Thank you. And switching gears, we're going to h two thirty three. Representative Nugent, would you like to take that chair? Yes. Chair. This is a r t. [Witness April Barton]: Yep. ACC. [Speaker 9 ]: Hello, everyone, again. So this bill is a revision of a bill that this committee passed out last year unanimously and could be very helpful to a number of sectors in the state, municipalities, sheriffs, and nonprofits. Increasingly, the state's nonprofits and municipalities, most of which are very small, just like our businesses, have found, some of the ways that the grant processes with the state are carried out to, slow down their work and kind of get in the way of the the actual work that they are asked to do. And so this bill is aimed at making those processes more efficient and beneficial to the service delivery. And, also, importantly, there's a study group that would look at grant processing across the state. So all the agencies in the state that provide grants, each one has a different process, has different paperwork associated with it, different timelines. And that, especially for municipalities, actually can be really challenging to have to redo all your paperwork for each type of grant. One of the other things that this bill would do would require the state to come up with a process that nonprofits and other entities applying for grants could request a higher indirect rate. An indirect rate applies to things that are not specifically attributable to one project, but they're absolutely not even though it says, you know, the de minimis rate, which means in consequential, it's not in consequential for the work, because it supports things like rent, the cost of Internet service, insurance, all these things that you have to have in place to do the work. And so depending on the type of nonprofit and the type of work that they do, if the state only covers a certain amount of the actual cost, it means that the entity has to raise the extra funds from somewhere else to cover that, or they have to not take the project on. So this would not require the state to allow a higher indirect rate. It would just require there to be a process by which the nonprofit could work with the state to agree upon a higher rate in case those costs would be helpful. And then it actually would reduce the amount of time that, that entity has to spend on doing the paperwork and the this other stuff to apply to the service itself. So that's kind of the gist of the the whole grant or the whole bill. Last year, we talked with the sheriff's association and Vermont League of Cities and Towns and Common Good Vermont. And we heard from a lot of groups that were finding similar issues and for whom this could be really beneficial. So it has a lot of support among those three groups, and I'm excited about this bill. So we have Charlie. [Witness April Barton]: You can call them, but [Speaker 1 ]: we have some other folks here. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Yeah. Does anybody have any questions for Kate before we let her out of the hot seat? [Speaker 9 ]: Love that. Phrase came back into use. [Witness April Barton]: Okay. Thank [Chair Matthew Birong]: you. So next witness, please, Charlie Baker. [Witness Angelo Lynn]: It's okay. We'll we'll [Member Philip Jay Hooper]: move on. [Speaker 0 ]: Me? Yeah. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Charlie and Peter. [Witness Paul Heintz]: Oh my god. [Witness Angelo Lynn]: I gotta go meet. I heard it's hot. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Go ahead. Introduce yourselves, please. [Witness Angelo Lynn]: Thank you. Yeah. Good afternoon. For For the record, Charlie Baker. I'm the executive director of the Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission. [Witness Paul Heintz]: And I'm Peter Gregory, executive director of Two Rivers Adequiche Regional Commission, Windsor and Orange County. [Witness Angelo Lynn]: And if it's okay, I'll start off first and then Peter will fill in and correct me as needed. But one thing first, I wanna apologize for kinda missing this bill moving last cycle or or we would've chimed in. The regional planning commissions and and towns in Vermont have raised similar issues. And so and we support kind of the broad purpose of kinda getting more efficient and effective and consistent with how we're doing things in the state administratively. You know, this bill is focused on Bolton five, which deals with grants and subgrants to entities like ours. The RPCs do not have any general revenue, and so we literally aside from some dues from our towns, which make up about five or so percent of our budgets, the rest of our budgets actually come from grants. So, I was gonna say we love Bolton five, but we're very familiar with Bolton five. So and do support efforts to streamline the administrative processes and make it more consistent. One of those is about promptness. We saw that there's, like, some time frames in here for agency responses. We definitely support that. Agencies have been getting better, but it would be good to have time frames actually specified in both five. Indirect rates, we all use indirect rates, and they are definitely not ten percent, and to cover our costs. And so, there does need to be consistent state policy. We, have grant agreements with multiple agencies. And, you know, I'm kinda thinking back to a few years ago. We had a new, grant relationship with the health department, and it was like we went into a whole new world and a whole new world of requirements that we weren't dealing with with other agencies we deal with. And so much so that like, I had to go to the secretary level to get them to sign off on our indirect rates, which are approved by VTrans, actually. So we have state approved indirect rates and but the agency human services, you know, wasn't aware of that and wasn't ready initially to support that. Finally, the secretary said, yeah. No. That's fine. Somebody reviewed it. We'll we'll honor that indirect rate. So, getting consistent, recognition across state agencies. If one state agency approves an indirect rate, which would be great to have a process for that to happen, but then they also need to be recognized across the agencies. And so definitely support that. And then, finally, the kind of bidding and award process, we would be interested in going a little further. We're finding times where agencies know at the outset that they want to enter into a relationship with the regional planning commissions to communicate or work with our towns. And so that we're the easiest way to do that. But because it wasn't in statute typically or it wasn't in the law that got passed or in the budget bill, they're like, oh, but we gotta go out to bid. And it's kinda crazy because they're spending a bunch of time on paperwork, and we have to respond with proposals and spend a bunch of time on paperwork. They have to review it even though they knew at the outset that they were gonna hire us, but they didn't feel like they had the, authority under Bolton five to just go ahead and do that. So we would be, interested in some maybe some additional language in this trap in this bill, if you're open to it. Happy to provide that afterwards. And, Peter, I don't know if you wanna add any other examples or more detail. [Witness Paul Heintz]: Well, I would thank you. I'd I'd just like to thank you, Representative Logan, for reintroducing this and the committee's work last year [Witness April Barton]: in in getting a bill like this through the house. [Witness Paul Heintz]: We would like to do whatever we can to be helpful in making sure it applies to all the entities that could benefit by this, and the regional planning commissions have a lot at stake here. And you might think, well, why are you just bringing this to the legislature and not having tried fixing it with the agency of administration? [Witness April Barton]: And I'm glad [Witness Paul Heintz]: you asked that. We have been trying for literally decades to bring these things to the attention. It's as if we have different state governments at play here. It's it's probably maddening. It delays our work. It costs money. Our towns are hurt by it. We sometimes lose federal dollars. So we have attempted to work with them, but then a flood will happen, and then the agency is overwhelmed with loan recovery. So there are a lot of things that can be solved by a thorough review through a study, which is great. We have some suggestions on broadening that out to maybe include the league and maybe some RPCs. But I think it's high time that the legislature weigh in and provide some specific direction on how to handle these situations. So it's not left up to interpretation or new administration or new staffers. So I think we are eager to help you in any way we can, and we just wanted to be here initially to kind of say, we have some issues here. We'd love your help, and we'd like to offer our help. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. Any questions for the RPCs? Okay. Very good. Parmesan Nugent, have someone else you invite us to listen to since we have a little bit of time left, and then we're going to have to get into budget discussion again. Okay. Thank you. [Speaker 9 ]: Yeah. Emma Paradise, if you would like [Witness April Barton]: to Thank you. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. [Speaker 1 ]: Thank you. Thank you for coming in to see you all in. I'm the manager of policy and strategic initiatives at Common Good Vermont. I was not planning to kick today, but really appreciate the opportunity. Just to reiterate some of the experiences that we've been hearing from organizations across the state, we actually convened a working group of organizations representing everyone from child care to youth services to environmental organizations who receive state grants and contracts. And so a lot of what's in this bill is informed directly by those impacted by it. And so just some of those issues to reiterate that we've been hearing reimbursement is one issue that comes up. Probably the most frequent concern we hear is has been more and more frequent over time that funding is expected to be paid out of pocket by the organization and then reimbursed by the state. Oftentimes, organizations, particularly those that are smaller and might not have as much reserve funding, have to take out bridge loans. I had one person submit a report that they had to take out twenty thousand dollars to cover costs. Another, their executive director chose not to be paid that week because they, had an eight week delay on the payments that they were receiving. So these are really impacting the organizations and take additional time away from their work that's really at the core of what they're there to do. And so and sort of compacted on top of the reimbursement challenge is the delay of payments that we've heard about as well as the delay of contracts. Oftentimes, organizations are performing work without being under a contract. We had one organization, report that they wound up spending seventeen thousand dollars because they didn't have a contract in place, were expected to carry forward the work. And then when they went to submit for, payment, they encountered so many challenges that they just wound up backing out of the contract completely. So it's really having a financial impact as well as administrative. And I think I think the process related sort of inconsistencies across agencies and departments can be challenging. The indirect rate, I think others have spoke too. We did appreciate that the agency of administration updated bullets in five to fifteen percent, this summer, which was, really helpful, which puts it on par with the federal indirect rate. And I wanna echo that we really want to work with the state, with you all to find solutions that work. We know that the grant administrators, they they're managing a lot and that there's a lot on their plates. So I think that this working group is really an opportunity for us to come together, identify where those pinch points are, where their improvements can be. And we've seen this happen in other states. Common Good is part of the National Council of Nonprofits and other state associations like us have been working on different solutions, to these challenges. And so there there are ways to move forward and really optimistic about that. [Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. Any questions for Emma? [Speaker 0 ]: K. Thank [Chair Matthew Birong]: you very much. Thanks to all our witnesses. Appreciate it. [Witness Shay Waters Evans]: Thank you. [Chair Matthew Birong]: And we're going to probably take, like, a five minutes break.

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