SmartTranscript of House General - 2025-02-26 - 1PM

[Chair Marc Mihaly]: Thank you. Welcome, everybody, to House General and Housing. It's Wednesday, February twenty six twenty twenty five. We are going to, at this point, discuss a draft, a letter to the Appropriations Committee. Every committee in the house owes the Appropriations Committee a letter if they have anything that is relevant to appropriations. And the letter that they request is that we in some way indicate relevant importance. The reason being that they they feel like we're kind of more subject matter experts than they are. They'd rather know what we think, however hard or difficult it is than just tell them, oh, we want it all. A couple of things about the letter, I'm just we're just waiting for the printed copies. The letter attempts to set out pretty much everything that we have considered that could be in our bill that has an appropriation attached to it. And things that aren't in our bill that we've talked about, but that are in some an appropriation of some sort. For example, our bill is just a is a housing bill, but there are two non housing issues that are in our bill. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I mean, it's not in in a [Chair Marc Mihaly]: bill, but they come under a human rights commission, the land access opportunity board. Let's take a letter. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Oh, it's saying. So [Chair Marc Mihaly]: This is the exact letter that I've sent out to everybody on Sunday. It's posted on our website. The part I took was I divided it into housing and other. The others at the end, it's just the Land Access Opportunity Board and the Human Rights Commission. But the housing, what I tried to do here was rather than rank everything, I decided to put them into tier and make it clear that within each tier, we think all of the things are important. And the way the the system I use in order to decide which tier to put things in good, I put in the first tier things that directly go to the construction of housing of of housing. And that's why you see the obvious things in there. The HCB, the HFA, the bond bank, that's infrastructure, and VHIP. They're in there. The second priority, they're important programs that produce housing or produce construction trades. And by the way, it's not complete because it doesn't have your proposal in there, but I would put it there. And I do and and there I put, for example and we can see these are important, but they're I just don't think they're quite as direct directly important. One is the the manufactured home improvement, the recovery housing, BHFA modular program that we discussed, the FTE, and the BSC program for expansion of building trades. That I would put you know how I put other trades there? It's because I knew Tom was working on something. Tom, what can I put here? Just [Member Tom Charlton]: four forty eight if I fund it. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Three eight. So it would be seven it'd be eight hundred thousand bucks total, and it's it includes the what is it? The Vermont? State colleges? No. But the other one. [Member Tom Charlton]: Oh, it's associated general contractors. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Through what? Department of Labor? Department of Labor. I'll tell you my thinking there. I mean, believe me, this is not rocket science, everybody. And, of course, appropriations wanted to do they're gonna do what they wanna do and what they but I just thought I put programs in the second priority, programs that produce housing a little less directly, but also the trades thing. Because we kept hearing from contractors that if we don't do the trades, if we don't try to do something for the trades, however little this is, we're not gonna get anywhere. So I just put that in the second tier. The third priority is everything else. By the way, my, if you go down three of the third priority, you can scratch the the modular itself above. The one the one I wondered about the one I wondered about, just to confess, you know, when I look into the HomeShare Vermont today, what struck me was how many of those are low income units, essentially. Did you ninety percent Yeah. Of the people are getting and they're getting these perfect sized to their needs. And they're it just made sense to me that it's really indirectly a housing provide it's really like building housing in a way. So I might be inclined to move it. I never thought I would do this, but up into tier two. Up into tier two. I mean, that that's my only that's it. And I did do if you look at governments other than housing, Equity Human Rights Commission, I don't know if they're gonna get six FTE. They we supported two FTE in the BAA. I don't know if they're in there and they came up through the senate. I just don't know. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Cut. They're cut. They're what? They're cut from the senate. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: They were cut from the senate. So it's six. Now the Land Access Opportunity Board, the only thing I would add besides some numbers is the you know, how everyone for everything else, I put the administration. The administration's giving them one point six million. I did not [Member Saudia LaMont]: Please where? Please [Chair Marc Mihaly]: At the very last line on the second. The line action. The administration's giving them I found I went through the budget. I found one point six three two million. I didn't find any allocation to them at all from the cannabis fund. I think the budget just takes everything from the cannabis fund, that's it in the general fund. But I'm not sure. So, anyway, I do wanna emphasize, oh, one very other important thing. The number originally that I had for VHCB was thirty five million. You know, they've spent, like, forty million extra beyond their base every year for years and more than that. One year, a lot more. And we had testimony that they can essentially take whatever we could give. Well, it's not up to us. But and then the administration's proposing thirty million bucks for the two middle income funds from b h c b at HFA. I swear. Anyway, I was talking to Robin and Tiff, and and when I got the strong impression, And this is just an impression. I said, look. You want us to ask for the sky, or do you want us to cut things down? And she said, credibility says cut things down. So what I did is I just reduced them both by ten million bucks. I don't think it matters what they say. I think they're gonna work on what they can work. But I think what we're saying is so really I think what we're really saying is both of these are important. We're putting them in tier one, etcetera. Anyway, I've now said my two pieces. Please help me. I'm proposing that. We all talk about it. And I can make little changes on here, and then you just all press me and I'll make and I'll get the letter. So Do [Member Tom Charlton]: we have a final one? I mean, we changed things. It's gonna change the file. It would be we have the addition for the [Chair Marc Mihaly]: do I have what? [Member Tom Charlton]: Sorry. I'm just completely blanking for a sec. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Do I have a final? The I'm just I'm just [Member Tom Charlton]: draw a line at the bottom and see what was in the budget versus what's in our portfolio. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: You know, it's twenty five million bucks. [Member Tom Charlton]: Twenty five million. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: In other words, it's a rough roughly twenty five million. We're proposing In addition. An additional twenty five million bucks that wasn't in the legislature legislative. Twenty five minus ten six. K. It's five million, [Member Tom Charlton]: which is basically the VHFA. [Member Saudia LaMont]: VHFA. No. [Member Tom Charlton]: It's the Oh, the VHFA. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Giving VHFA, they wanted four million dollars for VHFA position. We're giving them what they asked for. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yep. They wanted be BHFA. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: I can't believe I continue to mess it up. Also, they were giving BHFA the module program they wanted, and we're giving them the manufactured home improvement. I didn't make any cuts in those. Yep. It just I was there. [Member Saudia LaMont]: The expression of that? [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I just had a comment about the Home Share Vermont. Mhmm. Because we also have an issue with child care. And they were you know, you live in a big enough house, and you have an extra room. It's like, you know, he was using it for child you know, assisting with child care, whether it's a hour in the morning, hour, you know, after school you know, whatever the schedule works out to be. So it's almost like you serve two issues with that home share. [Member Saudia LaMont]: And I would just add to that the the fact that I when I worked at HomeShare Vermont, so many of the people who walked in to our to the office had moved here to study or, you know, moved here, like, thinking, oh, I'll find an apartment, and and it was just impossible. And then they happened to read about this home share program, you know, on a flyer at a convenience store and just love the idea of helping out somebody, you know, remain agent place. And it I think that this is a really important way of doing exactly what our goals are, like allowing people to stay off of needing services, very expensive things like and and growing our housing for people that are in the workforce and can't afford the housing and be in our workforce. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Can anyone remind I'm just trying to think. You know, one of the things you notice how this is very short. In other words, it's just a line. They told me, don't worry about, you know, explaining everything now. Just get that to us. So I can get the detail to them in the form of our bill, which has language. But I do like to just put a line. I have HomeChev Vermont to expand into the kingdom and what was this there? [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Windham, Winter, Winter. Yay. [Member Tom Charlton]: Yes, bro. [Member Saudia LaMont]: What What I'm also hearing is, you said right now, it's in tier three, which is third priority. Mhmm. But it sounds like you would like to see a new job, and I think everyone at the table Well, let's do that. Maybe next functions. Yeah. Right. We can all I think we [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: can Okay. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: I'll move to tier two. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: Yeah. That that's good. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. And I wasn't aware of the how many low income housing units are essentially produced by Oh, [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: yeah. Yeah. No. I in my district, I have a lot of seniors, and many of them have folks come in and and stay with them. And it just it's a wonderful kind of love. We all had a nice journey and [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: wonderful connection and and just really a great program. So [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: I yeah. This looks good. I [Chair Marc Mihaly]: k. Sash is Sash, I just bundled it's four hundred thousand. I just bundled into revenue and services program. Okay. But I called it out. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I see that. Okay. Yeah. That's really important to me. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: You know, I just so you know, I didn't put it's a pilot program. All the four hundred thousand I mean, it's so sad, all the things we can't do. I know. It's four hundred thousand maintains the pilot program. Right. Two million would increase it, and I just didn't put it in. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: But if we I'm grateful that we have it in there because, [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: like, we [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: as we continue to move forward, it keeps keeping it going, and and it's really important. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: And I've seen great successes with that program, so [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: I'm grateful that that that [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: it's in there. Thank you. [Member Saudia LaMont]: But did you you I thought you said you took out the two, but it said it does say two point four. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Right. It's resident services. It's two. Four hundred thousand, it says. [Jenny Hyslop]: Actually, we could have had four point four. Well, four. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: And that pilot is It's three. Right? [Jenny Hyslop]: What's the [Chair Marc Mihaly]: The pilot or SASH pilots. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Excuse yourselves. I'm sorry. [Member Saudia LaMont]: I'm I'm only due to what Cathedral's. I'm just not sure what the question is about. SASH is the SASH pilot is. SASH for all, and it's down in the the greater Broward Borough area. When the one to housing trust in Broward Borough Housing Partnerships operate SASH for all, and it's based on the traditional SASH model serving about three hundred people, half of which it is. And it's it's in its it's going on year three. And it it really is kind [Jenny Hyslop]: of like a blueprint. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: It kind of extends it by everything. Yeah. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yeah. Extends the pilot status. Continuous file. So does it It's nothing great spending time at all? [Member Saudia LaMont]: Not yet. If we had the two million, we would absolutely see the benefit. Okay. That was one of the areas. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: But it's just good to keep it going with what they the minimum. Yeah. It's the conversation going. It's very important to me. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I I just wanna say that, while I I do appreciate the pilot program, it's it's really not equitable for the state. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Listen. This is just [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: And when we talk about putting left out [Chair Marc Mihaly]: You know, you can make it two million. It's just gonna I mean, I I don't know what whether whether it matters for approach or not. So it's up to the committee. This is not you know, I just started. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: No. That's great. Yes. Sorry. I can't. I can't. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Are you sure? [Member Saudia LaMont]: Oh, yes. I remember now. Is human services amplifying this? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: That's a good question. Is this going to be HHS budget? Yes. [Member Saudia LaMont]: I'm not exactly sure where h e where human service is gonna land on this, but I do know that HouseHealthcare is this is on their on their list. They're doing final verdict this afternoon, but [Chair Marc Mihaly]: it is the thing. You know, if it's stupid [Jenny Hyslop]: I'm not I'm not Yeah. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: It's not fake people. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: What happens is all these letters come in, and then they take them apart by subject matter, and they take them apart and go deep into the budget. The budget is actually not an easy document to deal with. Oh, shit. Even though I once did, I've already forgot. So, if there is a duplication, in other words, if we say it and they say it, they'll work that out in the process. [Member Tom Charlton]: On the middle income home ownership thing. Is that [Chair Marc Mihaly]: it's the is that well defined [Member Tom Charlton]: the way it's written to show that it's two separate programs? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Well, you know, I didn't know how to make a bracket. Because then [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I guess you just [Chair Marc Mihaly]: You think it's not clear. I gotta make it clear. You know what I'm doing. Right? [Member Tom Charlton]: I know what you're doing, but it doesn't look to me as though it's written as it's two separate programs who are being funded. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Well, I have to just [Member Saudia LaMont]: get rid of the space between the two. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Well, then it one chunk. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Should I say I don't know. I could put I'll just take direction here. I could just say two middle income programs, colon, and then put a dot for each [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yeah. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: For a total of x because BHFA has reflect requested one sum to you to fund them together. And what's the name [Member Saudia LaMont]: put the rental housing revolving loan fund and just get rid of the the pair you know, the return and paragraph new paragraph line. Just put them all in one [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: long chunk on the left column. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. Yeah. [Member Tom Charlton]: Looks like looks like one's not funded and one's [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. I never ordered it. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: We have [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. I didn't have a way to put a bracket. [Jenny Hyslop]: Yeah. Yeah. No worries. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Too. I'm sorry. I'll just put a slash or [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: a front a backslash. Okay. I think that's. Yeah. And and she's the new thing here. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Because Anne makes it. Sorry. Yeah. Lovely. Other thoughts? [Member Tom Charlton]: What? Just so I can write it out here. What was the base funding for BHCB? I'm not even sure what it was. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Thirties. Let me Paul Paul, you wanna introduce yourself? [Jenny Hyslop]: I'm Paul. I'm a director of the VHCB's thirty six point nine for housing and some [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. It's not all housing. [Member Tom Charlton]: And that's a seventy thirty split? [Jenny Hyslop]: It's fifty fifty. This split is determined by the board. You're able to think about two thirds, the housing one third, the observation, and, like, a third and even house fee. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: This is general fund. All of this right. It's almost entirely general fund appropriation. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Can I Yes? So if we are proposing as a housing committee for twenty five million above base, is it [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: okay to ask for it to be directed to housing? Yeah. It's in our in our bill. As opposed to conservation, or is it No. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: It's in our bill. [Member Saudia LaMont]: In our Oh, no. Like, do [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: we say proportions, or can we not do that? [Jenny Hyslop]: I can answer that. As the legislature within years is direct one time general funds towards BHCB for housing, there's separate appropriations language that we have in your bill that directs it specifically for housing. So a hundred percent of that will go. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Our bill as it's drafted now, the one we just went through, grants four point one, had a long paragraph that described what the money was staged to be used for for BHCB, and it's all housing with an emphasis on shelters and just developmentally disabled and blah blah blah blah. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Okay. Okay. Alright. Is that something you you might be able to include in the letter? Because I know I have talked to individuals on appropriations who have asked about the split. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Oh, okay. I can do that. [Member Saudia LaMont]: That is much appreciated. Okay. Alright. And I'll and I'll reiterate for that. Given that [Chair Marc Mihaly]: chair of judiciary confessed to me that this letter was many pages long. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I think we can add a couple more. Add some stuff. And I [Chair Marc Mihaly]: do like the idea that something can print on. But so impressed. Actually, I think I appreciate that. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: Yeah. Right. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Any other I wanna so I don't feel the need for a straw boat. I just wanna know, are people comfortable with with it with the changes that have been talked about? Can I ask [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: a quick [Member Saudia LaMont]: question? I'm not one to usually ask for more amendments, so please don't think that this is [Jenny Hyslop]: an task. Is it reasonable [Member Saudia LaMont]: to say ten thousand dollars for the universal design study with the idea that out of right now, the language is twenty two macros. [Jenny Hyslop]: Once again, page three on the spot, but I'm looking at you. Yeah. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I was actually thinking maybe we could increase it to fifteen thousand just [Chair Marc Mihaly]: in a few. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I am shocked. Okay. Fifteen it is. For twenty I mean, I I don't I don't think that I still don't think it will cost that much. So I don't think [Member Saudia LaMont]: it will be that. I think [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Ten cents. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Fifteen cents. Okay. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Ten cents seemed a little low. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: They'll do what they do. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. I mean, one of the problems okay. I wanna ask a question if you got it. You know, since tier three, I said, these are right at the top under which says tier three, these are important services or studies that relate to housing today. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Mhmm. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: What I'm trying to convey is just because they're in tier three and there's a bunch of them doesn't mean they aren't important because some of them are so cheap. It'd be silly not to do them. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Yes. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. Any better way of saying that? [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: No. I think that this word is and it's so helpful because you obviously served on appropriations. You really have the grasp of of. So I think I think it relates it well. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Should I say something like and many of them are relatively expensive? [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: No. I think you could say something like and just personally, you could say something like, these key programs represent a full range of housing or related infrastructure programs because and then you could add in cost if you want to. But just to show that it's this is we don't just start with the top tier of cost. Mhmm. [Member Tom Charlton]: Do we need to call these things priorities? I mean, can these be just labeled tier one, tier two, tier three? [Member Saudia LaMont]: Tier one a. [Member Tom Charlton]: No. I mean, there's you know, there's I mean, they want they want us to rank them, but [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I got it. So for president. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can't. I don't wanna fool them. [Member Tom Charlton]: Yeah. No. But just these are all [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: yeah. [Member Tom Charlton]: These are all important. They're all in target. Yeah. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. I have my marching orders. I know what to write. I will cc everyone. I will get the letter out before eleven fifty nine. Wait. Eleven fifty. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now We are now returning we are going to return to the subject that we took up earlier, which is, h fifty seven. I apologize to members of the committee for having reversed the direction, but I in the exercise, my discretion. I am doing it and saying we are going to bring this up now. And I I I understand there are hesitations. If you look look at the bill, it's on our bills in and out of no. It's on excuse me. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: It's posted under the net. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Under the medic. Yeah. Exactly. So look if you look where the hell is it? Very bottom. Yeah. The very bottom. If you look at the very bottom, it is under Sophie's name, h fifty seven. That's the bill. And I'd like to have brief discussion. And if someone has [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: a chain they wanna make in [Chair Marc Mihaly]: the bill, it gets minor. We can just do it. Like, for example, Joe That one. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Minor changes? Yeah. I mean, I'm not telling you to [Chair Marc Mihaly]: do this. I'm just saying, by way, I mean, you have to own without that. If you wanted to say, hey. You know, I would really like to take out the eighteen month limitation so that people wouldn't get cut out because nineteen you know, they were incredibly upset in nineteen months to jump by. If you wanted to say that, you can say it. We'll get a sense of the committee, and then we could either pass it or not pass it with that change. So if you have changes like that, that are simple, we can do that. Sound boost. Okay. We have a proposal to take out the eighteen months. How do people feel about that? Yeah. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I'm not opposed to taking out the eighteen months, but I do think that we should have ultimately, it'll limit on the amount of time that people can [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Where is the [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Because, for example, I It's what? I can't find it. Yeah. It's like this. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: I think I've already checked it. It's on page five of eight. Page five of eight thirteen. Within a reasonable time after [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: in my wallet. It can't be within a reasonable time. It has to [Chair Marc Mihaly]: be demarcated. But the the [Member Saudia LaMont]: question as I recall, some [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: of the issue was that there had been a a survivor who who it was, like, eight years later, [Chair Marc Mihaly]: oh my god, that they [Member Tom Charlton]: Yeah. Well, my thing is, like, we're with our partially, I mean, with our expansions of of definitions here, I mean, a child could be someone who had day to day responsibilities of ten years ago. And that's something you know, I [Chair Marc Mihaly]: just see, I don't wanna [Member Tom Charlton]: I wouldn't want to exclude something. I mean, eight years, something might seem wild, and how would that happen? But so if a kid is thirteen years of age at the time of the tragedy, they can't they can't apply if I'm if I'm reading page two correctly. And in eighteen months, they can't apply if it turns eighteen. So who applies for or is this a plus the domestic partner? Is that just fine domestic partner? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yes. Not [Member Tom Charlton]: just the that's just domestic partner. Yeah. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. That's just. The date of the survivor reaching majority. [Member Tom Charlton]: I I think I was just confusing something from page two that I'm [Chair Marc Mihaly]: not gonna do with it. Oh, do you mean it's [Member Tom Charlton]: The exchange That was just defining spine structure. So if it's [Chair Marc Mihaly]: on the table, on the one hand, eighteen months is too short. On the other, we gotta have something. Yeah. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: That's all I'm saying. I had So we should have something. [Member Tom Charlton]: Can we give the can we give this board the discretion to extend that eighteen month? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: They want [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: the discretion. Right? I think that's what they came in to say. The the problem is that the board is not is ad hoc. [Member Tom Charlton]: Right. K. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: So but they only gather when there's been a claim. [Member Tom Charlton]: Right. Right. And if the claim is made nineteen months after, do they have the discretion to [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Or if the claim is made eight years after. [Member Tom Charlton]: They have the discretion to the same. I think they have to But maybe they They use their discretion right now. Right? That's how it operates. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I don't [Member Tom Charlton]: think they have a time limit. No. You mean the way they're currently operating? I don't think there is a [Member Saudia LaMont]: But the only thing I think twenty four months seems reasonable. I think well, if I recall and it's so hard. This and I just I wanna honor the conversation from this morning, where people were just talking about testimony. So I understand the importance of this bill, all the work that put into it, and how we got to this point. I just wanna acknowledge that. And then I I just wanna say that we we took a lot there was a lot of conversation around previously around time frames and what that looks like. And, you know, and if it was a distant person, a distant relative who came back. And so the time frame serves two parts to, one, give folks time and also put a limitation on time so that someone who comes down the line Shit. Eight eight years later to you know, it's there's there's that limitation because it it's got it there's gotta be limitation on things. I think I I there was a lot of complication around that. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: So what with the life insurance policy, is there a time limit where you can for that table benefit if somebody passes away, or is it ongoing? I think what would the language be with a life insurance policy of how long until you can [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Usually, there's a one you can make. You gotta make the claim within a certain period. Yeah. But, of course, insurance companies will protect themselves every which way they can. But we were to where there's [Member Tom Charlton]: a time limit, but the board has the ability to factor extraneous circumstances. Or Yeah. What's the or what's the word I'm looking for? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. I know what you're looking for. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Maybe it [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: would be helpful [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: to have Sophie here. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Well, we can't get her here in this time. This happens. There was [Member Tom Charlton]: So what I'd like to do is extend waiting. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: It's certainly stated. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yeah. I like that. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Get her back. Yeah. Yep. I'd like to do it. Yep. Okay. Okay. Good. So twenty four extenuating. What we're gonna do is we're gonna go through comments. I'm gonna ask for a straw boat, not a boat, but a straw boat. Then when Sophie gets here, we're gonna go through and tell her any change you wanna make, and then we're gonna vote. We can't vote until we talk her through a change. Right? [Jenny Hyslop]: Correct. You can't you would be voting on [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: you would have a draft to vote on. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yeah. Right. Okay. What a couple coincidence. Anyway, the ratings is not the right to convince. Okay. So twenty four months discretion for extenuating symptoms. Mhmm. Alright. Okay. Other thoughts before we do a straw poll on this bill? And I fully understand people's boss issues that there are. Okay. Yes. Everybody's peering at me. Okay. All those who yeah. We're doing a straw poll. All those who feel they would vote for this bill later this afternoon when Sophie, after we turn [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: the exchange, please raise your hand. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. We have an eleven zero zero boat, which is a straw poll. Okay? Alright. Now that was I wanna congratulate. [Member Tom Charlton]: I'm all stars [Chair Marc Mihaly]: for everybody. Well, it's enough little stars up [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: there. Yeah. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: If anyone needs one, they're up there. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: They're up there. Phone. So [Member Saudia LaMont]: I'm gonna [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: be thinking. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Now it's well, Magali, what do you have any idea what her schedule is? [Member Saudia LaMont]: It's looking like she's busy for the majority [Chair Marc Mihaly]: of the afternoon. [Member Saudia LaMont]: But I I emailed her. Yeah. We'll see. Can [Chair Marc Mihaly]: we can we just go in there for that one if you need? Okay. Sure. You can text her, though. [Member Saudia LaMont]: No. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: You're not allowed to text her? [Member Saudia LaMont]: I don't. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. Alright. [Member Tom Charlton]: It's [Member Saudia LaMont]: called the boundary. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: I don't believe in it. [Jenny Hyslop]: And you're leaving after four. Like, you won't figure out the form. Am I right? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: No. No. I I I'm here. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: Oh, okay. So if we came at three thirty after [Jenny Hyslop]: Oh, no. I have Right. You have [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: a meeting. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: I have a meeting at, what is it, [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: three thirty with So [Member Saudia LaMont]: if we just vote on it now [Jenny Hyslop]: No. I can't [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: do it. Can't. [Member Tom Charlton]: We have to, yeah, the draft [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: be the correct language. [Member Saudia LaMont]: I know, but I'm just saying if we voted on it without the change language Oh. And trust that the senate Okay. Could we vote out now? Okay. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Hang on. Alright. Okay. Feel like So the next Yeah. We'll we have I'm I'm moving on. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Or we can do an amendment on the floor, like, as a committee. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yeah. Okay. Let's not [Jenny Hyslop]: Not open that up? No. Okay. Okay. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: There'll be time for that kind of shenanigans, but let's not do it with this one. Okay. We are very early, but I hate to lose the time. Golly, do we have the ability to move on even though our agenda says that we you're nodding your head. Yes. We can do that. Good. Okay. Well, is Jenny here? Yes. So we have you and we have you, Polly. Do you wanna testify together? We can easily pull a chair up if you'd like to. Alright. Do we have an extra chair here? [Member Saudia LaMont]: Elise, can I steal yours so you [Jenny Hyslop]: can have my seat? We should all be good. Switch. [21 seconds of silence] [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yeah. [Jenny Hyslop]: I'm gonna share my screen. Oh. What happens in my. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: I mean, here, like, members of the committee, this is an example of just a little piece of testimony that's trying to fill in a gap that relate to our housing bill, the housing bill. That's what's going on here. And so this is a chance to just check-in on a few items. [Jenny Hyslop]: Pending your request for attention. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: While we're waiting, you don't know and you don't know this committee. Well, why don't we introduce ourselves? Go ahead. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Hi. Nadia Lamont, the Laura Wappington District. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Hi. I'm Elizabeth Burrows. I represent Windsor one. I'm Mary Howard, and I represent Rutland District six. Yeah. So Chittendood twenty, Old Chester. I'm Debbie Dolgen. I represent Saint Johnsbury, Concord, and Kirby. [Member Tom Charlton]: Hey, Tom Charlton. I represent Athens, Chester, Grafton, and Linda. Joe Parsons, Newberry Thompson, and Brothman. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Theodore Daddas, it's Town City, West You're not Ashley Barley, Fairfax and Georgia. So sorry. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: And I'm Margaret Tully. I represent Kalis, Plainfield and Barfield as chair. So please state your name, whichever of both of you, and then take it away. So for [Jenny Hyslop]: the record, I'm Paula Major. I'm the policy director for DHCB, and you all know me. But a piece of my background that's relevant or necessary today on resident services is I came to the HCB from working on Senator Leahy's staff being the policy lead for housing and human services. So I'm not by any means an expert, but I have a deep appreciation for the complexity of this work. And I'm gonna touch on where we are in the bill you're working on and get some overview and turn it over to Jenny to walk you through the services coordinator program that the HCB is currently running. I'm gonna let Jenny introduce herself at hers. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Go ahead. And then our ledge council is just coming over. So what we're gonna do when she gets here is just switch quickly and then switch back. Happy to do that. Okay. [Member Saudia LaMont]: I'm Jenny. I'm the housing director for the housing and conservation board. [Jenny Hyslop]: Alright. So you invited us in to talk about resident service coordination, and I'm gonna talk about some of the why of how we got there and also talk about a little bit about the appropriations that we've received for housing. Kind of building on that conversation that you do we're just having on your memo on how the money comes through. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: For members of the committee, this is an item at the top of tier three. It's we listed as two million plus four hundred thousand for SaaS. Okay. Go ahead. [Jenny Hyslop]: So, also, in your bill, you have an appropriation for VHCB and a list of priority areas. And I know there was a conversation here last week around how does BHCV work to prioritize the needs that you as the policymakers are identifying in your communities and the way this has worked since really of the pandemic, when you've been putting one time funds towards housing at BHCB, is the Appropriations Committee has included a list of priority areas, and then BHCB has sought to respond to those supporting projects that deliver those outcomes. So this is the language that has done in appropriations bills also is mirrored in your bill with that priority area list there and I just broke down how [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Oh. Okay. I'm gonna you're on for [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: a minute. Just a minute. Okay. So is that right? Yes. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Can. Okay. So Sophie, h fifty seven. Yes. What we did is we took a straw poll. Yes. And we voted eleven zero zero to support h fifty seven with one change, which I need to tell you, and then we can actually vote. But we cannot vote without the physical presence of your body in the room. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Okay. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yep. Okay. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: Let's see. Yeah. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Let me call this up. On page it's it's the twenty four month limitation or eighteen month limitation. Thirty percent. [Jenny Hyslop]: Just take that out. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: No. It's not that simple. It's now twenty four months or at the discretion of the board in the case of extenuating circumstances. No. That's fair. Yeah. [Member Saudia LaMont]: Pretty warm in here, Jeff. Bring the [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: touch here. [Member Saudia LaMont]: I was trying to come on to have this question of people with an extenuating circumstances. For a longer it's [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yeah. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: No. You'd have to say for a longer period in the discretion of date. In extenuating circumstances at the discretion of the board. Due to extenuate. Right. Due to extenuate. Okay. Now that she has that, what do we do? So I have [Member Saudia LaMont]: to type it up and put it on our committee. I think you can vote on a draft pending. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: So this only makes your motion and so [Chair Marc Mihaly]: we're Okay. Do I have a motion to do I have a motion to approve h fifty seven as amended in committee ending the production of a final draft. No. No. H five. Okay. Do I have a second? [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Second. All those in favor? Oh, [Chair Marc Mihaly]: now we need the clerk. Right. We have a [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: form. I [Jenny Hyslop]: do. I do. I do. Here. The gate married has form. [Member Saudia LaMont]: You [Chair Marc Mihaly]: wanna call the roll madam? Just I don't have [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: to ask if there's any more discussion. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Is there any more discussion? Yeah. Can we not legislate like this going forward, please? [Member Tom Charlton]: This is a garbage process we're doing today. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: It's I'll do my best. Beyond not how we should be operating. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Okay. So Representative Bartley. Yes. Sorry? Yes. Representative Krasnow? Yes. Representative Burrows? Yes. Representative Shortland? Chauffe? Yes. Representative Dodge? Yes. Representative Howard? No. I'm sorry. Representative Dalton? Yes. Representative Howard votes yes. Representative Romant? Yes. Representative Parsons? Yes. Representative Peso? Yes. Representative Mohali? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yep. One zero zero. Okay. So I am you're gonna be the reporter on this, and that means that you have to send an email to Nigel letting him know that he passed out and that you will be the reporter, and he'll get back to you. I do wanna say that I apologize, Joe, and others. Alright. No. Listen. I well, the specific lesson that I learned from this experience is that I have to be particular, I guess we all do, particularly careful when a bill comes before us, which has a history in this committee. That's the kind of thing. And so now I know to look at that right away rather than wait, you know, until, like, we're a long process. And so I'm sorry. You know, I'm learning to go a shot at you. I was just Yeah. You're right. In my opinion. Meant to be. Yeah. Yeah. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: We also should be taking more testimony. And this was a really good example of there was a lot of personal testimony that could have been taken that would've been meaningful. K. Alright. Thank you. Sophie, thank you for coming over in what I know is a short time. But, please, Sophie, what's our next step? Our next step [Chair Marc Mihaly]: is you produce the final [Member Saudia LaMont]: I can go ahead and get that submitted to drop [Chair Marc Mihaly]: the And then it goes right to the floor? [Member Saudia LaMont]: I think. Yeah. To carry over that. Right? Yeah. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: It comes here. The the clerk has to be [Jenny Hyslop]: the one that came Yeah. The clerk of the has to [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: be the person who's in. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Mary is going to be here today, but she's not here tomorrow. [Member Saudia LaMont]: It was just a [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: try to do it today. She had to No. Thank you. But she can she can email email it. [Member Saudia LaMont]: That's what I emailed last week. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: But she doesn't have an it [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: to email yet. Right. So once we get through this Yeah. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Great. Alright. Let's return to the testimony. We are we are now back. Dealing with any and our major. On the issue of resident service. [Jenny Hyslop]: I should have saved. I didn't have anything. [61 seconds of silence] [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: What was that? When did she email that? [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Oh, it's on the website there. Right. You have. Oh, it's one. I gave you my phone. Nice. I'm talking about. No. I'm talking about what she did. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Remember I handed it to you and asked for a soft copy? Yes. Did she get a soft copy? Did she email us? Yes. That's funny. I don't I just emailed to you. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Oh, you didn't? Okay. Yeah. I'd like just a few emails. [Member Elizabeth Burrows]: I think I have. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Are you ready? We're [Jenny Hyslop]: back here. And so we were just explaining about how the priority work that's included in appropriations for one time. Funding for housing helps direct BHCV's work and helps us respond to opportunities and communities at at ease. And so you're seeing the outcomes in those priority areas broken down here just for the record. I think an example is you've asked us to, focus on housing for individuals eligible for the Medicaid home and the community based services program, folks with intellectual and developmental disabilities and PHCB over the last year, year and a half has worked as support for projects around the state that serves those populations. Our partners first believed into doing this work and in doing so have been, especially in helping people who are exiting homelessness, have been renting at a higher and higher rate within their portfolio to people exiting homelessness. I know couple of weeks ago, you've heard from this resident, Hamilton, who lives in Zephyr Place. In [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: In Nino. Yes. [Jenny Hyslop]: As we do this work, not only with folks exiting homelessness, but also with residents with a wide range of service needs. Our partners who own and manage the housing have been reporting back to the HCB that they, in order to support successful tendencies, need to really leaning into providing resident service coordination that we've been working to help stand up a program to support that work. And that's what you have in your bill. And that's what Jenny's gonna talk about. So in your bill, you have an appropriation to the agency of human services for the two million for a resident services program, that was authorized in Act one hundred and eighty one last year. And there was a discussion last week about whether BHCB is eligible to receive direct appropriations. We can and we do receive direct appropriations. And so I would recommend that the two million flow directly to BHCB for this work. The program as set up in Act one hundred and eighty one asks us to work with the AHS to consult with them in program design of the appropriations. Our interpretation is that it can run directly to us and with in conversations we've had with AHS over the years about the need for resident service coordination, they have asked BHCB to administer those dollars because of their capacity constraints and our unique relationship with the housing and owners here. So I would suggest that the committee make that change to have the appropriation flow directly through the HCB. We also see and hear about the wonderful work that Cathedral Square is doing with SASH for all those discussed an hour ago here, and the pilot program to support the Brattleboro housing entities and to really build that as a proof of concept in the hopes that it can best serve people around the state. They just have to start somewhere, which is why you don't see starting with a statewide pilot when when funds don't allow that. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Holly, I just wanna clarify so we get it I get it clear and can you give direction to our legislative council? Is the current draft in our is the current draft correctly stated or incorrectly stated as to who it goes through? This is the this is the the two million. [Jenny Hyslop]: Yep. Incorrect Incorrectly or suggest a change. So the current draft is bolded here. This is act one eighty one is for reference last year's language. The bolded is in your current draft, and the h or the arrest and service program is that's administered by the HCB is under an appropriations for an AHS. I would suggest moving that out and having it be an appropriations to the HCB for that work. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Right. Okay. To okay. Go ahead. I do have a question which we'll get to about the larger appropriation to be it won't get to that. Okay. [Jenny Hyslop]: Happy to answer that. So this just some summarizes those comments on your bill. And I'm happy to provide draft language with that change if that's helpful. [Member Saudia LaMont]: I'll turn it over to Jenny. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: That would be helpful and send it to Cameron. Okay. [Member Saudia LaMont]: So as as Polly described in our work with the nonprofit housing network, we have really consistently and over a long period of, of time heard about this deep unmet need for support and services for residents. And it's especially true in portfolios where there are a high number of, vulnerable monitors [Chair Marc Mihaly]: being served. [Member Saudia LaMont]: So We were very fortunate to receive a targeted one time non receivable three million dollars grants from philanthropists who wanted to provide us with an initial boost to help meet the need. And so that comes in the form, again, of a three million dollar award, a million dollars per year to expand access to resident service coordination by providing funding for ten positions a year around the state. The nonprofit housing network in Vermont is made up of community based organizations that serve every area of the state, and they know the needs of their communities and their residents. And the organizations you see on this slide, the ones in bold, are regional nonprofits who receive annual operating assistance and support from BHCB. The donor here was looking to invest in organizations whose work is already under routine review by BHCB and then and whom they could place a high degree of trust. We know, that I think we all know that ten positions is not enough to address the need, for services in Vermont, but it's enough to have an impact, and [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: we want to maximize the impact by partnering [Member Saudia LaMont]: with these entities. Maximize the impact by partnering with these entities. So before I just, dive into program details, I wanted to just give you a little bit of context for how we got here, since you likely know the board is not typically and traditionally in the business of funding services, but we've kind of found ourselves at a unique crossroads because of a number of factors. Even before the pandemic, we knew that our service delivery system was complex and that many residents in affordable housing were challenged to access services, especially in times of crisis that threaten their tendencies. So working in partnership, with BHFA, we engaged with the corporation for supportive housing to analyze the issue and to issue a report for us. And their work confirmed what we already, I think all know to be true, that our service system is complicated. It's challenged by labor shortages and that residents in affordable housing need help accessing those services and that there was a need for funding to support a response. And that was in, twenty nineteen before the pandemic. Along with the pandemic and exacerbated that issue, it resulted in in a on the positive side of things, substantial capital that was targeted to build housing for very vulnerable populations. But it also increased the state's labor challenges. And at the same time, the opiate crisis was really continuing to to, take off. So thinking back to that, map slide that you saw, these four partners that that were on that slide manage a combined rental portfolio about sixty five hundred units. And of those units, at least twenty five percent are occupied by people who, previously experienced homelessness. And I'm sharing that with you not because every person who does experience homelessness needs services, but instead because of of just one of a variety of indicators of a high number of vulnerable states served by affordable housing. And I think it's also a fault of all of us to do everything that we can to ensure that they can retain their housing after everything they've gone through to get it. So in our ongoing work with the housing EDs, we heard that many of their, most vulnerable tenants were having deepening challenges accessing services. They were falling behind in their rent. They were experiencing crises that were threatening their tenancies. And the last thing that any of these organizations want to do is be in a position of having to evict a tenant. So to that end, we've worked with this philanthropist to obtain the award, which required that our partners engage in a sustained planning process that began last April. And they all agreed to work together to create a framework of interventions and outcomes that would be tracked using a common, software database. Everdorf, a partner of ours, agreed to coordinate that data collection and all of the reporting, and they've been just a tremendous help in the process. All of the sites will use similar approaches. They will be using evidence based practices that include trauma informed care, motivational interviewing, and assertive engagement. And all of the service coordinators will meet together once a month to discuss best practices and strategies, and we'll measure outcomes of interventions and report to the philanthropist on an annual basis. So this philanthropist has two goals. They wanted to provide some immediate help, but they also want, to make sure that there is a platform for measuring outcomes and reporting on those outcomes. And this is, just to be clear, place based services. So it's services in the housing. It's what I like to think of as an open door model. A tenant can stop in for one time support, or they can work with a coordinator for a longer period of time to access services to meet their needs. It could be to address insecurity, mental health care, transportation, what have you. The coordinator is can also do community building activities. So that would be things like a potluck or a barbecue. We think of those things as preventive steps to help strengthen ties among neighbors. It's not intended to duplicate any other services and is instead intended to ensure access, equitable access to services for folks who live in the housing. And the other thing I will say, is that it is a nonrenewable, funding source for us. So it is three years, and then we are we are done with it. So in terms of progress to date, the philanthropists approved our implementation plan in November. Our board made awards in December, and I'm happy to report about eight weeks later that nine out of the ten positions are filled already, and work is underway. So this is a very lean program. The vast majority of the funding to date has gone to cover direct costs, staffing costs, with the remainder going for, software, training, and consultant. In terms of, next steps, the partners will continue to work, to onboard, the support from the HCD, train the new coordinators, and the peer network will continue monthly gatherings. And we will all collectively, begin, to obtain data on outcomes, probably beginning this summer. And each of the executive directors has, I would just like to acknowledge, contributed a tremendous amount of time and care, in in looking collectively to design a program that can meet regional needs, but also be part of a statewide initiative. So I just wanna express my appreciation to to them. And then at the end of this summer, when they report their initial outcomes to us, they also will seek funding from us for their second year of operations, and we're looking forward to to learning more and more alongside them. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have or talk about any particular areas of the program's implementation that are of interest. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Other than the committee? I I have a couple of questions that but, actually, they really go to the general appropriation of the HCV. One is on the list. Let's go back to the to the the big language. Yeah. Yeah. Provide support, enhanced capacity. It's really up to your discretion, sort of like how you do this right. How do you feel about adding individuals with intellectual disabilities to the list? [Jenny Hyslop]: They are captured under the Medicaid funded home and community based services language that was suggested by Okay. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Good. The second is we've received actually, Susan Aronoff is here sitting here. Susan, you wanna introduce yourself for the record? [Jenny Hyslop]: Afternoon, committee. My name is Susan Aronoff. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: I'm the senior policy analyst and planner for the Vermont Developmental Disabilities Council. I'm a state employee based in the agency of business services. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Thank you. I don't know if we'll need you to pipe up, but just in case. There was a a request for a limited service position to provide technical assistance to housing developers seeking to identify and align financing for service enriched housing. Is this the kind of thing that's I mean, you guys have a lot of freedom within your your whatever the sum is that you get, but do you need express language to help you do this? Is it something you want to do? Or do you is is it fine with that? Or do you need more direction to do that? [Jenny Hyslop]: So we really see this as this language is directing predominantly towards the work the board does to get capital out the door to projects. There is a broad enhanced capacity mandate here as well. What this specific language of thought around the position would do is that we see that, these projects are increasingly complex and need many different development sources to be woven together and connections with service providers made as well. And so this would just allow these more complex projects to move forward more smoothly. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: But do you need authority to do that? Or just in other words, do you does VNCB have the authority to just hire whoever it needs to carry out what's there? [Jenny Hyslop]: Yes. We do. It would if this was embedded within that forty million, it would just be more funding that is going towards tactical assistance rather than entering as capital. Let just to make sure, let me put it another way. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: The various factors that will determine what that number is at the top, which is not going to be forty million, whatever it is, those factors will include all kinds of extraneous Issues about how much money there is, which the Appropriations Committee will have to decide. It's not like. They decide that it's twenty five Million, there'll be twenty five million. Two hundred thousand, it will add that position. It'll just be buried there. Any advantage to you to include extra language or should we just let it be? [Jenny Hyslop]: You could certainly achieve the goal by having it within this language. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Okay. Thank you. I think are there other questions for members of the committee? [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Yes. I don't know if you can answer this question. But how many people and how much money does Medicaid funded at home at community based services represent? [Jenny Hyslop]: Great. I'm not the right person to answer that question. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Are you? Who would be able [Jenny Hyslop]: to? If [Chair Marc Mihaly]: we wanted it, is there something you'd is it something you could get hold of? [Jenny Hyslop]: I would suggest you either having Susan shouldn't testify that or the Department of Aging and Independent Living that [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Susan, do you know the answer? [Member Saudia LaMont]: I'm trying [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: to Excuse me. Representative Barrows, do you wanna know how many people currently receive Medicaid long term maternity leave based services in Vermont? What I really wanna know is how many people are at risk of losing their Medicaid based home and community based services? Because of the budget that was just that's made? Yeah. In the monitor, a third of her monitors received their health care through Medicaid. Of that number, some of the services are mandatory. Like, nursing homes and primary care probably won't be cut. Right. But at the five thousand who see home and community based services for intellectual or developmental disability Yep. Those community based services are all optional. Yep. And they are most likely to be cut first because they're optimal. So around five thousand. Just in the intellectual and developmental disability, common community based services in Milan also covers seniors and people's physical disabilities through choices for care. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yep. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: People with brain injuries, people with psychiatric disabilities through our department of mental health has several home community based programs. It also covers our soul based services for students with disabilities. It covers a wide swag Correct. Of what are considered optional services Okay. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Thank you. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Outside of traditional Medicaid. And Vermont, I'll say, has led the country in expanding Medicaid to put it to some very ingenious, but our new waivers expected to use Medicaid for, like, the first time in the country to support. Yeah. For unhealthy Yep. We'll see what happens. [Chair Marc Mihaly]: Yes. Thank you. Other questions of being asked for our witnesses. Could you send this material to Cameron? So we have [Jenny Hyslop]: Certainly can. And, I updated the presentation based on today's current draft of the bill, so I'll get an updated version of you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: Alan is not scheduled to [Member Saudia LaMont]: be here till two thirty. Right. Would you [Chair Marc Mihaly]: like to come off? Right? How about how would everybody like a break where they can walk out and get into a cooler atmosphere, open the door, and maybe even a window just a [Vice Chair Ashley Bartley]: little?

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