SmartTranscript of House Education - 2025-05-01 - 9:00 AM

[Chair Peter Conlon]: Is really about if we were to have a phone free schools policy statewide, how might that affect college courses that are taught within school buildings that have a phone free policy when sometimes phones are needed for those college courses. And we have Kate Mobley, dean of enrollment, community relations at CCV with us today, and Wilson Garland from the State College System. Welcome to you both. Kate, why don't you start us off? Sure. Yeah. [Kate Mobley]: Well, thank you for taking the time this morning and and for Wilson for for joining. As you said, I'm the dean of enrollment and community relations at CCB. I also, for a number of years, oversaw our secondary education initiatives. So I wanna start with, like, the big picture part of this, which is access for Vermont youth through Act seventy seven, which just celebrated its eleventh anniversary, and has a number of different elements that students can take advantage of, which I know this committee is familiar with, but personalized learning plans, early college, and dual enrollment. And where this this is I think the terminology of it's a little bit of a niche challenge. And I just wanna do some definitions so we're all on the same page in terms of what we're talking about with the challenge around a potential cell phone band, which is there's sort of two different flavors of dual enrollment. One is straight dual enrollment, and that happens where high school students are potentially using an act seventy seven voucher, sometimes paying for it if they've exhausted those vouchers, and taking a college class taught by a college faculty that also contains other students. So our general CTV application, which at CTV can mean you have to include the fifteen to seventy five in a classroom environment. Sometimes that means students are going to an academic building. Sometimes it means students are taking those classes online. And in that dual enrollment setup, what we've also found is that there are high schools in the state who are using dual enrollment coursework to supplement what they're being able to offer to students in their school. So sometimes, it's a calculus class that students need. Sometimes, it's a it's a sort of more general education course, but it really varies in terms of the topic that students are taking. That's actually a small part of this challenge. So just [Wilson Garland]: to give you a a [Kate Mobley]: sense of that, for CTV, this academic year, twenty four, twenty five, we have fourteen hundred over fourteen hundred, Vermont high school students doing dual enrollment at CCB. [Representative Erin Brady]: So [Kate Mobley]: that's that definition. But the larger towns with a potential cell phone band is in what we call our concurrent enrollment classes. And concurrent enrollment classes are taught in a high school or a tech center by a high school teacher or a tech center teacher during the day that students are there. And to give you a sense of the scope of that, how many students are are participating in that, that's almost eleven hundred students participating in concurrent enrollment this year. [Chair Peter Conlon]: This is a new concept to us, I think. So these are not dual enrollment courses. [Kate Mobley]: They are. So this is where, like, terminology gets if you if you and I were having a conversation about what constitutes dual enrollment Yep. Concurrent enrollment would be like A [Wilson Garland]: subset of dual enrollment. [Kate Mobley]: Exactly. And where it gets Nuance is the funding model. But let me give you an example of sort of the range of concurrent enrollment classes. We have four English composition courses that are being taught at CDE this fall. That's right. Pardon me. So those students during the day are taking a class taught by their high school teacher for college credit and high school credits. Where we do most of our concurrent enrollment is in career and tech ed, and the reason for that is because CPB receives federal funding through the Perkins program. So the every state agency event gets Perkins funding that then goes primarily to community colleges. And as part of our both compliance and outcomes, we are required to offer concurrent enrollment in career and tech ed programs. So there's a federal component of this in order for us to meet and stay in good standing with our Perkins funding. So what is it about cell phones? Why do students need cell phones in their needs experiences? And this is the piece where at at some point, I will hand it over to Wilson in terms of the technological components. But this is the piece that I, wanna make sure we're all on the same page with, which is, because these classes are for both high school but also college credit, it's our accreditation that holds the standard of that class. And as part of our accreditation through Nechi, we have to ensure that high school students, regardless of where they're taking a class, either at CCD or in their high school, are having the same academic experience and same opportunities and held to the same academic standards in those classes. And the way that we ensure that or one way is we have students utilizing our learning management system. So Canvas is the learning management system that the Vermont State Colleges use. And in order so if you're in that English comp class and you're in third period and you're having an English comp class that also is for your high school and college, your teacher is using the learning management system of Canvas in order to ensure that you're getting the teaching the learning at the college level. Unfortunately, we are now in a world where multifactor authentication is a requirement for our learning management system. This is something that my secondary ed team has been working on on a school by school basis because we certainly have schools in Vermont that already have cell phone vans for the past year and a half. We have explored countless other options in terms of how students might authenticate and be able to access campus. And I will say it's it's it's a challenge for sure. So let me just pause there, and maybe we could talk a little bit about sort of the larger cybersecurity pieces that Wilson has. Would that make sense, or do you wanna Let [Chair Peter Conlon]: me just see [Wilson Garland]: if there are any questions here. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Go go ahead, Josh. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: And so Wilson may be the one answering this question. [Kate Mobley]: Sure. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: But I know for I I many things I have have multi right? Yes. And a lot of times, I just use the email option. Right? Because it gives me an option of that. And and I believe most students have a district email and have a district device, and we'll have access to that on the device they're actually working in Canvas on. So I think that that should be an adequate enough workaround as opposed to using a text code that comes. [Kate Mobley]: So my short answer, and then I'm gonna turn over to Wilson, is we have explored that. Actually, Wilson has done some work with some school districts around their Chromebooks, and it's not a viable option. But I'll let him answer. Wilson, do you wanna do the the email authentication piece? [Speaker 5 ]: Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you. So in in our environment, it's you know, our number one for us is obviously keeping student staff and and other constituents data secure. And and we have a number of different requirements related to that and including, you know, we carry cyber insurance for the event if we ever did have a breach or or other things like that. Related to to other options for multifactor authentication, multifactor authentication itself is going through an evolution and, you know, where email used to be a a trusted way for for people to provide multifactor authentication with the the availability of security breaches and and identity theft and and other things. Email is no longer considered by most cybersecurity experts to be a secure way for multifactor authentication. So most multifactor authentication tools that are available have phased email out with the exception of, using email to reset your password. So, in many cases, you'll, you'll still get prompted to, to reset your pass through password through email. But when it comes to multifactor authentication, most multifactor authentication tools require you to get a a code to your, phone or, do do some sort of app on the phone or device that allows you to get the the code that you need? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Go ahead, Josh. So [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: company I worked for previously had an app that I could download on my phone. I actually had to download it on my computer. Yep. Right? So why couldn't we have that kind of technology available to schools to download on their Chromebooks? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Why don't we ask this question maybe? As you said, there are already schools with loan free school bans. How how are you addressing it with those schools? [Kate Mobley]: So I'll answer that part, and then I'll have Wilson answer the the other part. It has meant a hodgepodge. You know, we work with seventy two different high schools, and how they do it is different. I will just say multifactor authentication is a thirty second hit a button, and then you have access to Canvas in the portal for twenty four hours. So there's a school district, Mount Anthony, that has students walk in the door that are taking a concurrent enrollment or dual enrollment course. They have to have their laptops open, they do it, and then their phones get put away. We're aware of another school district where it's sort of a more flexible cell phone policy, meaning it's a classroom by classroom decision. And those teachers are putting them in little pouches and then having them take them out and put that back. Clearly, there comes with k twelve management on any of those solutions, but I will say, the value of concurrent enrollment and dual enrollment versus, I think, is high enough for school districts that we've been working with them on a case by case basis. That being said, that doesn't represent every high school in the state, and so the scale of this would really change the game in that way around students having access. So, Wilson, do you wanna answer the Sure. [Wilson Garland]: The other [Speaker 5 ]: Yep. And and we've evaluated a a number of different multifactor authentication tools. The one that we use currently for for all of our systems is called Duo. I believe it's a Cisco product. And and [Chair Peter Conlon]: Duo [Speaker 5 ]: is available for for iPhone. It's also available on Android. The Android app can be downloaded onto a Chromebook, but there are technical reasons why it's not easily supported. So when when somebody logs out, the information doesn't automatically reload with their credentials and other things, and it would need to be authenticated. Basically, Duo is not supported as a as a an app on the on the Chromebooks, but it's something that we've tested and and, you know, are continuing to work to see if there's ways that we could configure it. And it may may not work in all circumstances, but it requires a fair amount of setup on, the school side in order to have it be active within their environment. It would require some additional setup on a student by student basis on our side, certainly more so than than getting it set up once on a on a student's device. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So do you have suggested solutions for us to think about? [Kate Mobley]: Sure. I mean, I think one potential solution would be to have in the legislation, I I believe I'm correct, there's a medical exemption that's currently yeah. Is would dual enrollment be considered an exemption? Meaning, then schools get to decide how they implement that exception, but at least it would be consistent for schools to be empowered to have that. We've certainly had conversations with, the school board's association, the superintendents. I know they're talking about model policies. From our perspective, some consistency would be helpful with that just in terms of how to both support students doing that and also supporting the k twelve staff who, at the end of the day, are gonna be the ones who are managing that in the moment. So clearly, we need to make sure that that feels viable on their end. Wilson, I don't know if you have anything to add to that. [Speaker 5 ]: Yeah. I think just the the the point that you made earlier, Katie, is important, and that is, you know, the they don't need their device to do the learning, you know, if they are working on their Chromebook on a or a computer in the library or or other things like that, they really just need the device for that thirty seconds to authenticate themselves as a user within the system. So if there's if there's a way to construct the procedures to to allow for, you know, momentary access, but certainly supportive of the, not having phones accessible during the morning process. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Representative Brady then representative Dobrik. No. [Wilson Garland]: I just the background for all of us is you're well aware. I think devices across schools are gonna vary. We keep talking about Chromebooks, but [Representative Leanne Harple]: not all schools. [Speaker 7 ]: Not all schools. [Representative Erin Brady]: Chromebooks. Right. [Kate Mobley]: I know. Colchester does laptops. Yeah. Many students are frustrated [Wilson Garland]: with the technology, bring their own. So it's not as if you can Right. Solve for one common device across. Right. And my I don't know [Kate Mobley]: if you I came in at this point. I mean, we have worked with at least fifteen districts on an individual basis, and it's it's frankly overwhelming, like, from that perspective of Yeah. Okay. You have this. You have that. How do it's Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't a complete sentence. Sorry. But it's overwhelming. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Have you guys taken the time to look at other authentication software that could work across more platforms than what you're currently using? Because, I mean, there there's a lot out there. And like I said, I I still get the emails from all my banks. I don't I don't have to use my phone for any of them. So but, I mean, all of there's more technology out there, and I know there's a cost. There's a on ramp to all of it. Right? It's not a simple thing. It's just flipping a switch to another product, but have you guys research other products that could be a bigger envelope or umbrella for all these these devices? [Wilson Garland]: So I'm [Kate Mobley]: gonna answer that. Then I'll both of them, I just wanna say one thing, which is I have been saying for the past year and a half, like, I don't understand why this is why we have to deal with this. Frankly, I I it's just so challenging. I'm sure if you utilize the medical center, you just got a thing saying they're doing multifactor authentication. Like, your banks, it's a matter of time. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Do it, but they give me the option of a text or an email. [Kate Mobley]: So I'm gonna predict that email is gonna go away. But I'm gonna let Wilson answer that other part. But the other piece to know, and this is so CPB is the largest higher ed partner in this game, but the other thing to keep in mind and BTSU, of course, is our sister institution has the same technology. UVM offers dual enrollment and concurrent enrollment. Saint Mike's, Norwich Mhmm. They all have different we sort of came to the table because we are the ones who do the most with this, and we have a hundred percent been trying to problem solve this on an individual layer. And then once it became apparent that this might be bigger than that, sort of said, oh, we've gotta we've gotta explain sort of what the context is. [Wilson Garland]: But, Wilson, do you wanna get to the other part of it? [Speaker 5 ]: Yeah. And and we have explored other authentication tools, not I mean, not just for this purpose, but when we were exploring tools ourselves initially and and choosing Duo, we looked at a number of different tools. You know, we were hopeful that the Microsoft tool might be one where we could continue using email, but even Microsoft now has moved to email only for resetting passwords for their most recent authentication. So at least in in the way that that we've implemented and and implemented our own, identity management, Duo is is the most flexible of the options, and allows us to do some things that we're not able to do, but we've we've eliminated some of the, configurations that are most problematic from a security perspective. But eve even and and it's just not available within Duo, and it's it's available within Microsoft, which are the two that are most likely for us. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Does all of this mean that, anybody who's doing dual enrollment is required to have a cell phone? [Speaker 5 ]: No. Sorry. [Wilson Garland]: I was just gonna ask again. [Kate Mobley]: Anybody who [Speaker 5 ]: can log into our system would need to be authenticated using some sort of device. [Chair Peter Conlon]: But so I'm gonna take a Yes. On there? [Representative Robert Hunter]: Well, except at MAU, just they just dial it in in [Chair Peter Conlon]: the morning? On their cell phone. And they walk away and then they pass it. Every if you wanna be in [Wilson Garland]: Sort of a secondary environment dual enrollment. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Dual enrollment. You have to If you're [Representative Robert Hunter]: a kid without a cell phone. Right. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Yeah. Because they're kids without cell phones. [Kate Mobley]: Yep. They're probably they're probably using their parents. I mean, yeah. I I was trying to think through the different scenarios of that. Yep. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I realized probably everybody has a cell phone, but that's Well, no. [Wilson Garland]: They're a big dog. Big issue. [Kate Mobley]: Yeah. Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: Yeah. They don't want those too. Yeah. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: So then a student who doesn't have cell phone or access to one during school hours can't be in doing home? [Kate Mobley]: No. What what I so the what I would hope we would do and this is a little hypothetical because no one has come to us with that specific problem. I would say my guess is a parent has a cell phone, and authentication lasts for twenty four hours. So that's where [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: So they could do the authentication at home where they leave in the morning. [Wilson Garland]: So we did talk about this, and I will say we talked to [Kate Mobley]: a couple districts. Mount Anthony started with the do it at home thing, and then students didn't do it at home. It's your class. Right? So you're sitting there not able to access Canvas or [Speaker 7 ]: do the work. [Kate Mobley]: And and my thing on it a little bit is I I want students to be responsible, and our dual enrollment students are sixteen and seventeen. And I have a seventeen year old who sent me a text while I was sitting here saying, I forgot my cleats. Right? So that's okay. That's just about practice. But the the regularity of that and, again, this is what I would say. That's gonna fall on k twelve. So that's I think that's a challenge. [Representative Leanne Harple]: Right. So Go ahead. Thank you. So I'm I'm I I'm hearing everything in the twenty I hear the twenty four hour thing. Most of the recommendations that we're focusing here on is bell to bell. So we're not saying kids can't bring their cell phones to school. We're just saying they bring them to school, and then they turn them in to whatever the school decides or we decide. [Wilson Garland]: Sure. [Representative Leanne Harple]: And then they pick them up at the end of the day. Yep. Why is it they can't just sign in when they get there? They're too offensive, you know, [Kate Mobley]: to They a hundred percent a hundred percent could. I would say, I think you're gonna need to hopefully develop some either. [Representative Leanne Harple]: But but, I mean, I'm saying before Yeah. If it's bell to bell, they do it just when they get to school before they turn their phone in. That's not I mean, every child needs to be responsible, as you just said [Kate Mobley]: Yeah. [Representative Leanne Harple]: For being able to sign in and remembering their phone that day, and that could be true with [Kate Mobley]: Hundred percent. That will fall in the school to manage that. So the piece that will have to happen before the bell, just to be clear on this, is a student will have to open their laptop, go to work Chromebook or whatever, the iPad, be in our portal Mhmm. Have a cell phone to do it. That's fine. You schools might end up saying, if you're in a dual enrollment or concurrent enrollment class, you gotta come to school twenty minutes early to get yourself ready. Like, I think how it gets implemented, that is a hundred percent. I don't at CCV, we are not advocating in any way to say, we want students walking around with cell phones or students need to have access to their cell phones if it is a bell to bell. We just want you to understand the workload implication that frankly is gonna fall in k twelve around these options for students. [Wilson Garland]: Does that [Kate Mobley]: does that answer your question? [Representative Leanne Harple]: Yes. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I understand the Dolbridge. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: I'm trying to simplify the process you just came up with. Could I have Canvas on my phone and then go to log in on my phone, use it the authentication, then I'm in Canvas. I didn't have to pull out my tablet, which might be sitting in my room because I got because some schools don't let the thing [Chair Peter Conlon]: go home. [Representative Erin Brady]: Right. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: So then I can do everything on my phone, oops, shut it off and hand it in, and then still be able to go to my computer and get in Canvas because I logged in to Canvas. Does it have to be logged in on the specific device that you're going to be using? [Kate Mobley]: I'm gonna let Wilma answer that. Yeah. No. Thanks. [Speaker 5 ]: It it does need to be the same device. So you you need to you need to authenticate that that you're the user on that device. Yeah. Many of you have probably when you log into a bank or or something, it asks, is this you is this a trusted device? Is this your personal device? And, that and that's the reason. Right? So it is a device to device connection. And basically when you do the authentication, you're authenticating it. And and while you can do it, and have it be active for twenty four hours, I mean, there are some nuances. If you take the device into a different network, it's working off of a different range of IP addresses and things like that that that can be problematic. So I think the the specifics of it being the same device and within the same general computing environment, you know, like Katie said, it could be, you know, the twenty minutes before school starts or whenever, but, that should be adequate. [Representative Emily Long]: I think hearing all this, it's really important that we don't make exceptions. Our policies that are good for all high schools should not be driven by what's good for CCV. I mean, we're saying the same thing with early college [Wilson Garland]: and its drain on our system, and now we're talking about backpedaling on this because of what's good for this. [Kate Mobley]: You know, if it's a little more inconvenient for [Wilson Garland]: the kids who are doing dual enrollment, [Representative Erin Brady]: I mean, maybe it's even time [Wilson Garland]: to have the conversation of, does this still work as intended for [Representative Erin Brady]: our high schools anyway? [Wilson Garland]: But that's obviously a much larger conversation. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: But we should not be having this right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: That's a discussion for us. I think the purpose here was to understand what the real talks are, what the challenges are, and I think I should be very accurate on going out how whatever solution we come up with for it is going to fall on the public school system. [Kate Mobley]: Mhmm. Yeah. And I guess I would just like to say couple things about that. One, and I so federal Perkins funding is a huge amount of dollars that come into our state, and that's a requirement requirement that that grows to the community college. So regardless of what this committee talks about from sort of a different funding source, concurrent enrollment at career and tech ed centers have to happen in the state to get Perkins funding. Mhmm. So you have to figure out cell phones in that environment at a baseline. Your other conversations, I can appreciate there's some nuances there, but you you are gonna have to figure out how to make students be able to take concurrent enrollment and dual enrollment. And the other thing, I guess, I would just say is [Representative Leanne Harple]: dual [Kate Mobley]: enrollment provides opportunities for students in the state of Vermont that aren't happening, in their high schools. And so I think if you're does CPB benefit in some ways? Sure. We get tuition dollars. But I think it's important to keep students at this under here. And when you look at the numbers of students and the range of experiences, I think it's really important to keep that in mind. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Bigger discussion different day. [Kate Mobley]: Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. Go ahead. [Wilson Garland]: We may be just getting too far into the weeds here that just that whatever legislation we pass has phrasing in there about and it's up to each individual school district to develop policies around exceptions such as dual enrollment, medical Our our [Chair Peter Conlon]: our challenge in this committee will be Right. [Wilson Garland]: Are we building an exception, or are [Chair Peter Conlon]: we making a broader policy Right. As it's done school Exactly. [Wilson Garland]: It'll be different from school to school. Yeah. [Kate Mobley]: It'd be great [Wilson Garland]: if it's the same it'd be great if [Kate Mobley]: it's the same, but I [Wilson Garland]: just know it's not gonna be because they don't have the same technology. Yeah. Some schools don't allow kids to take devices out of the school building. Some do. Sure. Yeah. Some kids are there twenty minutes before bell for breakfast time or some are not. Yep. So if if we trust schools to be able to figure out how these exceptions are done, I think we're okay. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. Thank you very much Thank [Representative Erin Brady]: you. For Thank you. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Thank you. Highlighting highlighting is a challenge here. [Kate Mobley]: Sure. But [Wilson Garland]: there's And to understand the [Chair Peter Conlon]: tech technology and that that all cybersecurity is going in a different format, but Yes. Can't do email anymore if you know any of that. So very helpful. [Kate Mobley]: Thank you. Thank you for the time. Thank you. [Speaker 5 ]: Thank you. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Alright. So, Kari, we are now going to refamiliarize ourselves with h fifty four. So there have been some language changes, I I think, a little bit based on our conversations. [Wilson Garland]: Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Representative, sponsored the bill, also had some suggested language for how we define social media. Mhmm. And I asked our city council to include that. And so we can look at that language and figure out where it falls short or where it does well. Well, good morning. Good morning. Welcome back to the committee. [Representative Erin Brady]: Thank you. Anyone? They have come [Wilson Garland]: out long. [Representative Erin Brady]: But yeah. Feels like. That's Saint James off of the legislative council. Happy to be here. Would you like me to share my screen with the language? Okay. Yes. [18 seconds of silence] [Chair Peter Conlon]: North Dakota just passed their bill. Is that North Dakota just passed their bill. I mean, [Representative Robert Hunter]: it's, like, literally yelled about. Oh, stop. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Love it. I'm already in charge of finding copy of it and mailing it to the committee. Send me it to this. I'll hold it. [Representative Robert Hunter]: Easier than than said. [Representative Erin Brady]: I was gonna offer to do that, but [Wilson Garland]: by all means know it. Keep going. [Representative Robert Hunter]: I just quit, so was you. [Representative Erin Brady]: Right behind you. So what we're looking at is you're the first time looking at this bill in an amendment form, so this would be the your committee report on the bill. So we have the preamble here, but then the body of the bill. Any changes between the bill as introduced in the strap one point one are highlighted in yellow, hopefully. So no changes to findings. And I appreciate the tee up that chair Conlon gave. These edits are solely from our discussion last week with the exception of the social media definition. So no changes to, like, where this language would live or the different, statutes themselves that you're proposing to add. So the first change is on page four. Adding a definition for individualized health care plan means a written document developed by a school nurse in collaboration with parents, students, and other relevant professionals to outline specific health care needs and management strategies tailored to the unique health condition of a student. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: I I think there should be a requirement that the student's health care provider, whether it be a psychologist, psychiatrist, medical doctor, has to be in that. They have to have the saying, and it has to be part of a treatment plan. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I should get into that later. I [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: hope so. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Well It's just [Representative Erin Brady]: TBD. Okay. We can look at the obviously, we'll look at the language together and you decide. So the the the slight challenge here is, and I don't see any of your experts here on this, an individualized health care plan is not otherwise defined in title sixteen. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Is it anywhere? [Representative Erin Brady]: Not that I am aware of in state law. There may be a rule series somewhere that has it, and I'm just not aware of it. So these definitions apply only to this subchapter. So you're really limiting it you're really limiting where this definition is applicable so you can really tailor it to this specific situation. However and I would encourage you if you really wanna if you want to, you know, to hear from the folks in the field who work with individualized health care plans, despite not being a defined concept in state law, this is a thing that is happening every day in the schools, and I don't I don't have the expertise to be able to weigh in and say, by per asking for a provider, you know, part of a care plan or something like that, you're actually deviating from what an individualized health care plan is. So I don't I don't know. So I would just point out that I am not the best subject matter expert on [Chair Peter Conlon]: IHCPs, we're gonna call them. [Representative Erin Brady]: Or monkeying with this definition, what [Wilson Garland]: you do to the field. I don't know. [Representative Erin Brady]: The next change is still on page four. This is the definition of social media that your chair referenced before I started. So let's just walk through it, and then I'll point out I have some kind of I don't wanna say concerns, but I think we can I think this language could use some tweaking? So social media means any online product or service used primarily for the purpose of posting and viewing user generated content. As used in the subchapter, social media does not include an online product or service where the exclusive function is email or direct messaging shared only between the sender and intended recipients without displaying or publicly posting to other users not specifically identified by the sender as recipients. An online product or service that does not involve school specific features or identifiers or the predominant purpose of the product or service is the posting of educational materials, news, or resources, and where the posting of comments by users or other interactive functionality is incidental to the predominant purpose of the product or service [Wilson Garland]: Mhmm. [Representative Erin Brady]: Or school managed online or a school managed online product or service used solely for the purpose of publishing student journalism or school related news, events, and updates. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Do you [Representative Erin Brady]: wanna keep going? You wanna talk about this definition? While we [Wilson Garland]: talk about this definition. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Do you [Kate Mobley]: want me to talk about that? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yes. Yeah. [Representative Leanne Harple]: And what do [Representative Robert Hunter]: you think about the word algorithm? Because that's been bumped around a little bit. [Representative Erin Brady]: I don't know. So [Kate Mobley]: We'll we'll [Chair Peter Conlon]: still with what we have here [Representative Erin Brady]: for you. So so I'm just gonna go starting on line twelve on page four. Any online product or service used primarily for the purpose of posting and viewing user generated content. I am not a social media expert. I am not a media expert. I am not deep in the space of what online use and social media is doing to humans in general, let alone kids. So I am not your expert. I'm just wordsmithing this with you from a legal standpoint. This seems really broad. Hosting and viewing user generated [Kate Mobley]: content. Mhmm. [Representative Erin Brady]: Who if you own a website, then you are a user of a website and you are posting on it. Right. But I'm I'm just saying, like, as a lawyer, if if I'm trying to look for the holes in places, I would say I would need to understand more about what we're trying to get at here. [Representative Robert Hunter]: And maybe this is the place where you say user generated content, comma, where algorithms are used to target users, etcetera, [Wilson Garland]: etcetera. [Representative Erin Brady]: I don't know. Does that are there algorithms on j crew dot com? I mean, I don't, like, I don't know. Yeah. Probably. [Speaker 7 ]: Do you [Representative Robert Hunter]: keep getting it? Yes. I [Representative Erin Brady]: will. Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: But before we start that, instead of [Chair Peter Conlon]: going through going through suggested fixes here, let's just kinda go through it because that's what the holes are all in. [Wilson Garland]: Can I so where did the is this just representative or some language or is this somewhat where is this pulling from, like, legally? [Chair Peter Conlon]: I have to go back and look at my communications with her. She said maybe federal. Don't know [Representative Erin Brady]: if you had any I mean, just the same email that your share has. In my memory, I can speak to that, but I'll I'll let your share. [Wilson Garland]: I didn't know if you had other [Representative Erin Brady]: I believe it came from some constituent legal research [Chair Peter Conlon]: I think it's I think it came from [Representative Erin Brady]: field. Yeah. But Sure. No. I have not arrived at that. I have not. No. This was taken verbatim from that recommendation, [Wilson Garland]: and here we are. And there are huge lawsuits against us. I wonder how it's defined. Right. [Representative Erin Brady]: Yeah. And I I think depending on what you all wanna do Those are, I guess, companies Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: But but it's in the context. I I don't [Representative Leanne Harple]: know if there's [Wilson Garland]: definitions there that help us. [Representative Erin Brady]: There are there are definitions everywhere. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: And and this you know, I just say this is one of the challenges we're facing by going into this part of the bill Mhmm. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: As opposed [Chair Peter Conlon]: to just Mhmm. Logging up phones for today. [Representative Erin Brady]: And I will say, I believe, if my memory is correct, that the definition in the bill as introduced actually came from a federal law. [Representative Robert Hunter]: Right. [Representative Erin Brady]: I can't speak right now. My memory is not good enough to tell you what the federal law was or the context, but that is one definition that's floating around out there. [Kate Mobley]: Do you want me to keep [Representative Erin Brady]: pointing out concerns I have or [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yes. But I'll let I'll let representative Dobrich ask his question as long as it's not highly [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: No. To be honest, so it seems like there's some gray areas that you're it sounds like you're not fully versed in. Am I correct in saying that I'm not trying to discount what you're presenting? [Representative Erin Brady]: Keep going. [Speaker 7 ]: Are there other Yep. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Legal professionals within this field that we could get testimony from from maybe, like, the Social Media Victims Law Center or something like that to help us with this definition so it's a little more [Chair Peter Conlon]: I That's our I officially you. I officially deputize you Yeah. That's to go to the whatever that organization you just mentioned to see if they do have something that would be really helpful. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Would it or someone? They wanna be like, we wanted someone to testify. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. Yeah. But if there's something Yeah. I can if there's something there, we can write. [Representative Erin Brady]: And I yes. I am not an expert in so much media. No. No. I just saw an easy opportunity for a giggle. So [Wilson Garland]: We need Don't we? [Representative Erin Brady]: I'm happy to do more research on this. Right? I just haven't this is this is what we're working with today. But, absolutely, there are folks out there I mean, this is a space that is being litigated Yeah. That is being researched, that is being analyzed and debated. So, absolutely, there are folks out there. It is just very unsettled. [Wilson Garland]: Yeah. Mhmm. [Speaker 7 ]: Mhmm. Yep. [Representative Erin Brady]: So you're gonna get different points of view and [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I so I I would like Josh to follow-up with with his idea and anybody else here who would like to do some research. And to the extent that you have available [Wilson Garland]: time Mhmm. [Chair Peter Conlon]: That would be fine. Absolutely. I, however, do not want to take up your time and give your other responses. [Representative Erin Brady]: Else going. [Wilson Garland]: Yeah. I don't know what you're referring to. [Representative Erin Brady]: Yeah. Understood. I'm making a research note here. So going back to the language line fifteen and this is not my this is not enough. This is I hope the folks out there who are watching and you all are not taking this as me criticizing this. I'm, [Chair Peter Conlon]: like, you [Representative Erin Brady]: know, walking through I didn't this isn't from my brain, and so these are the thoughts that came to my brain as I was typing it up. Mhmm. In online so so these are so a through c. So line fifteen on page four through the end of page four and then one through five on, page five are the exceptions to what social media is. So these things are not social media. And so an online product or service where the exclusive function is email or direct messaging shared only between the sender and intended recipients without displaying or publicly posting to other users not specifically identified as sender's recipients. Okay. So in addition to not being a social media expert, I am also an elder millennial. So I am not the most versed when it comes to the, products that are out there, but I immediately thought, what about Snapchat? [Wilson Garland]: Right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: That's exactly what it came to mind. [Representative Erin Brady]: Okay. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: And I was thinking, like, yeah, or, Facebook Messenger and stuff like that. [Representative Erin Brady]: Exactly. Because that is a separate app than That's right. Facebook itself. And the exclusive function of it is direct messaging. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: It does actually tie into Facebook as well because you can you can actually directly access Facebook from Messenger. Mhmm. [Chair Peter Conlon]: That's why it's it's, like, it's too simple here. Representative Ryan. [Wilson Garland]: Well, can I ask a question to ground my understanding as we walk through these definitions, we're talking about defining social media because we're talking about the schools cannot require student like, let's I I wanna be understand why we're defining social media because we're not banning social media? We do not have that power. I mean, I don't know. Maybe we do, but we collect that's not what we're here. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We are [Wilson Garland]: not writ large banning social media. Right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: For kids. That's common. That would [Wilson Garland]: be a different bill. But [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: This is schools cannot require usage of social media for students. I guess, they're so easy to understand, but exactly what the definition is for the final answer. Also says cannot communicate directly. [Representative Erin Brady]: That's a great that's a great point. So that's alright. Give them a [Wilson Garland]: and you can help ground us there and yep. [Speaker 7 ]: I hope you're [Wilson Garland]: here so that we're not pondering this. [Representative Erin Brady]: Great. And, again, this is all tier. Policy for you all. Mhmm. So the piece on social media starts on page six, and it prohibits schools, school districts, and SUs from using show social media for communication with students directly. Again, the yellow language is new that I've added from our discussion. Unless the program or platform is approved by the school district for such communication. So what this does, and this is one of the points I was gonna make is, on page six, lines eighteen and nineteen, You you're just saying social media, you're gonna refer back up to the definition of social media. You don't need any you potentially don't need any exceptions in there because you're saying [Chair Peter Conlon]: Great. [Representative Erin Brady]: The school district gets to decide what's appropriate for you. Sorry. Yeah. And then so it's the school is prohibited from using social media for direct communication with students and asking or requiring students to use social media for school activities. And then they have schools have to have in place measures to prevent students from accessing social media while on school issued electronic devices unless access to social again, this is new language. Unless access to social media is approved by an educator as an integral portion of a lesson plan. So I think I think you have lots of different things you can do here. You can build in exceptions and just say no social media. You don't need exceptions if you're leaving some discretion, or you can do both. But I I think it depends on how much leeway you wanna give to the field on a individual school by school, policy by policy basis, or how prescriptive you wanna be across the board. Mhmm. So prohibition on using social media to communicate with students directly or requiring them to use it for school activities. So that's the does that help ground you? Okay. So we're gonna go back up here. So I would just again, not an expert on these things, but I'm not sure that the exception in subdivision a is [Wilson Garland]: Can I just ask a quick question? [Representative Leanne Harple]: Yeah. I don't need you to go back to the page, but I'm still looking at at what we were just looking at. And and when it said schools, school districts, and supervising units are prohibited from utilizing social media for communication with students directly Mhmm. That's was the language. And then unless [Representative Erin Brady]: Mhmm. [Representative Leanne Harple]: This program platform is approved. So it doesn't mean that a school couldn't use social media. [Representative Erin Brady]: No. This is specifically saying [Representative Leanne Harple]: They can. [Representative Erin Brady]: If if the school district chooses to. Right. [Representative Robert Hunter]: So [Speaker 7 ]: I don't want to jump ahead to this subject, but when we do get to a discussion about the subject, I still have very big concerns about some guardrails around what kind of an application the school can say is okay. [Wilson Garland]: Right. [Speaker 7 ]: And making sure it's archived, personalized, easily monitored by the district and all that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I'll [Speaker 7 ]: just throw that back up there. Great. Okay. [Wilson Garland]: So that's what I mentioned. Yeah. That's [Chair Peter Conlon]: right. Yeah. Keep going. Don't lose your thought there. It would be a [Wilson Garland]: good question to ask. It's a good point when Megan comes in at ten fifteen communications. Who do the school communications? Are all [Representative Leanne Harple]: those things that you do they do those? Are those things even [Speaker 7 ]: Well, there is one there is one that our school district not used that is capable of of all that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Okay. And and just by using what you said, would that actually solve a this definition problem? Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: It's [Chair Peter Conlon]: a little bit question about her. [Representative Erin Brady]: Do you wanna keep looking at the definition? [Kate Mobley]: Sure. Yes? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. Yeah. [Representative Erin Brady]: So we're on sub so I've I've shared my thoughts on subdivision a. I'm gonna move on to subdivision b. An online product or service that does not involve school specific features or identifiers. I'm not quite sure what features or identifiers is trying to get at here. So if you like this definition and if you wanna work with this, I would I didn't This is an area of wordsmith. Okay. Where the predominant purpose of the product or service is the posting of educational materials and user resources, and where the posting of comments by users or other interactive functionality is the end to end to end to the predominant purpose of the product or service. I would be curious as to what you're trying to sweep in here in this exception. The big one that I that that I thought of, again, just as a human out in the world is Substack. But Substack also has things like what makeup trends are happening in [Chair Peter Conlon]: Mhmm. [Representative Erin Brady]: Twenty twenty five, right, or nail polish pillars. It's not [Wilson Garland]: all about, you know, articles Right. [Representative Erin Brady]: That of educational value. Although, perhaps for our cosmetology program, those articles are of education. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We just saw a robust cosmetology program yesterday. So [Representative Erin Brady]: Oh, did you go to Central Vermont? Okay. Sign me up. [Wilson Garland]: I didn't [Representative Robert Hunter]: beat it. [Representative Erin Brady]: A school managed online product or service you stole, like, for the purpose of publishing student journalism or school related news events and updates. That makes sense. I don't know what school managed intended to mean. Is it that the school has control over it? Do they own it? Is it a website that the school is building and you know? Or is it just a service that they have? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. There are products. I know in our school, it's [Representative Robert Hunter]: you know, you can you can subscribe and, you know, get a template for your school newspaper and do it online, that sort of thing. So I [Wilson Garland]: may just So I think that's [Chair Peter Conlon]: a school managed online product. [Representative Erin Brady]: Again, if if this is an area where we wanna spend time, [Chair Peter Conlon]: maybe the Or or do we start needing more ability to choose to know school district? I would say with a lot of caveats that Rosenberg would add it in. Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: But what you're what you're saying, if I'm understanding right, is correctly, is that we might not need all of this stuff because it's if it's covered in, say, page seven be unless access to to social media or an online platform, perhaps, yeah, is approved by an educator as an interim portion of it. Like, we're almost doubling Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Mhmm. Right? We're seeing it when [Representative Erin Brady]: we Yes. And it's a technically, a policy choice is whether you wanna limit what social media even means to begin with. And then I mean, that Well, [Wilson Garland]: I'm getting That feels like a harder gate for us to go through because it's like it's like PCPs in the camera, but we live in a media obsessed saturated world. Like, we're we're trying to define things that change everything. And are constantly evolving in a, you know, just grossly rich industry that will be ten thousand steps ahead of us no matter what we do. Yeah. [Representative Robert Hunter]: Yeah. So I'm I'm just reading right here. And I and I think maybe this is the keyword, and I didn't come up with it. Somebody else did. Social media algorithms are automated systems that determine which content users see and the order in which they see it. They are designed to maximize engagement, keep users on the platform, often prioritizing content that is popular or likely to be of interest based on the user's past behavior. And I think that when we're talking about social media or or even if, like you said, Jake Jake Grewe or whatever, I mean, like, they know you. Mhmm. Right? They know you and they keep feeding you stuff. So if at the end of your first sentence definition, it said that you do any site that utilizes algorithms to specifically target users, that just might [Chair Peter Conlon]: So as I was in challenge, that would be One [Wilson Garland]: doesn't then then the school has to figure out what that definition. I do not wanna go down. Okay. [Chair Peter Conlon]: And and, again, this is I think, for my mind, the the exception we have for teachers who say, you know, I want you to go on those so you can learn from them Right. Is one thing. I we're I think we're trying to target what social media is as a restriction as to what a school can use for direct communication. Yes. Right. Yeah. Just so just within that role. [Wilson Garland]: Well and but not just the two. It's not just direct communication. It's for out of school academic or homework. [Representative Robert Hunter]: Right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: At work. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: We can't tell them. They were just saying we can't we can't tell them they have to use any of this. They go home on their home computer and use x y z one two three. That's that's their prerogative when they're Right. Under our supervision. Just we can't tell them what they have to do. [Chair Peter Conlon]: That was all about restricting what a school could use for direct communication or require students to be part of [Kate Mobley]: and [Chair Peter Conlon]: potentially what teachers can assign with students. We wanna go down that path. [Wilson Garland]: But to be so but it's not saying we're not prohibiting teachers or schools from using it for some journalism purpose or some, like, academic and school purpose. Yeah. If we're not prohibiting that, then we don't need to define or exempt that. Right? [Chair Peter Conlon]: And we don't need to it was so if you're if you're back on the last page there That's why I keep or the last social media is approved by educators. Plan. When [Wilson Garland]: you check out ABC. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Well, schools b letter b on the last page or seven of eight, page seven. Schools shall have in place measures to prevent students from accessing social media while on school issued electronic devices. Mhmm. Yeah. Do we need a definition of social media for that? So probably in a way, we're telling schools to do something that they're all That's what I'm doing. How is it going? I [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: so I [Chair Peter Conlon]: can't we have not heard from a single education group that has said that they aren't restricting. Everybody keeps saying, oh, yeah. Chrome pads are restricted from this, this, and the other thing. [Representative Emily Long]: Are you sorry. Are you asking for examples of how we have used [Wilson Garland]: it and asked for it to be opened up? [Kate Mobley]: Because I have, and I can give you examples of No. [Representative Leanne Harple]: No. Because we're saying unless [Chair Peter Conlon]: the social media is approved by an educator as an Right. [Wilson Garland]: Okay. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: So my question being for the educators in the room, what what kind of social media would you need to approve as an integral part of the lesson plan? Why would you and and why would you need to [Wilson Garland]: I'd be happy to answer that. Please. [Representative Emily Long]: So I've done lessons using PostSecret, which is a blog. I've humans of New York. I've even done, like, having middle schoolers track their own digital footprint on Facebook and asked our security to open up Facebook for a few hours so they could see what hap like, how college ed applicants or employers can look at them and [Kate Mobley]: the things that they wish that weren't online. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. [Representative Emily Long]: Those are all examples of things. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Media literacy course Yeah. Seems to have access to those. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: So I'm I'm saying so you're using it to teach them about the how social media works. You're not using it to say, go on social media and go do go research how this thing happened. [Representative Emily Long]: Well, in that third example, in the first two examples, like post secret and humans of the dark. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Blogs. Right? Those aren't necessarily Facebook. [Wilson Garland]: No. There is This is where we're having to [Representative Erin Brady]: access them through social media. [Representative Leanne Harple]: Yes. You do. [Representative Emily Long]: And, yes, I have asked them to go and look at those for examples of how people are generating content as art, folk art, sort of. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Is it something that is and this is for me understanding. So I'm asking you to to offer them. Can you as an instructor pull up that information and share it through, like, a lightboard or something? [Wilson Garland]: Or, you know A lightboard? [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Oh, sorry. So, like, some schools have, like, a board to project projector that projects on the smartboard. Thank you. [Wilson Garland]: Oh, okay. Or or a [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: TV screen or something like that. So you can actually [Representative Erin Brady]: Yes. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Be the purveyor of the information with their [Representative Erin Brady]: own Yes. [Wilson Garland]: That would be [Representative Emily Long]: a workaround. And, also, actually, both of those examples exist on their own websites, which are a little clunkier than to just go to them through. [Wilson Garland]: Is there other one? [Representative Emily Long]: But it yes. There are workarounds. Yes. There are. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Thank you. [Representative Emily Long]: And you could have one teacher just doing it on their computer, which this doesn't seem to prohibit. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I I don't wanna have much more of this coverage only because we have limited time to close legislative council. Alright. [Speaker 7 ]: So these two that's on the screen right now that you highlighted, are we contradicting ourselves a little bit? [Wilson Garland]: Say again? [Speaker 7 ]: As you highlighted, everything's on this page that we're looking at right now are contradicting ourselves. Oh, [Representative Leanne Harple]: wait. What did you say? [Representative Erin Brady]: Yes. And I think you could read it as b is about in school, and two is about when you go home or you're out of the classroom. I'm not saying that that is good. I'm just I I yes. I I think that is a genuine really good point. Yes. And maybe you can just get rid of Very good. Asking or requiring students to use to just get rid of all that and and you just say unless social media is approved by an educator as an integral portion of the lesson plan. Right. [Wilson Garland]: Or say that again, please. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: I have a hard time even with that because if there is a workaround, why do we even need to have it as part of the lesson plan? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Well, you know, have school be all about workarounds. Yeah. [Representative Emily Long]: And also convenient tool. Because we trust teachers. Because teachers have license and are responsible and are not trying to own children, and we have hired them knowing that they have the best interest of kids in mind that are doing the best job that they can. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Thinking about the kid who now has access to social media. It might do other things while they're on the social media, and they're not supposed to and when they're supposed to do something else. Yeah. [Kate Mobley]: I think we're overthinking this. [Representative Erin Brady]: The real point of this [Representative Emily Long]: bill was to keep cell phones out of [Wilson Garland]: schools [Representative Emily Long]: and suddenly we're getting, like [Chair Peter Conlon]: Well, it was too yeah. It was it's too far. It was it was bell to bell cell phone preschools and restricting the use of social media for school for direct communication tool as a direct communication tool. Okay. [Wilson Garland]: So different than as an educational tool. Right. [Representative Leanne Harple]: That's right. [Wilson Garland]: Two very different things. Direct communication tool versus educational [Chair Peter Conlon]: tool. So we could get out of all of this and go and go with just Contractional motion. I I I'm not sure we're gonna have any instructions for you yet, but we might discuss it further and then communicate. So we'll Facebook you with some [Kate Mobley]: I'll never see it. [Wilson Garland]: Really. Direct messages. Chrome I'll [Representative Erin Brady]: never see it. I'm gonna connect with rep Taylor about his point about the archiving and record retention. Mhmm. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yes. Yes. I think Okay. That that some sort of safeguard like that would be great. Okay. For a safeguard like that. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. [Wilson Garland]: Do you want me to go back up? I no. I think here's where my concern I completely support the bill, this policy, like, getting kids off phones all day, schools managing them. I think we are quickly realizing my concern has been anytime you try to do something in schools, it's not as simple as it sounds. Mhmm. And the amount of work it things might potentially create. Again, I this will not change. I am for it. I will advocate for it, but I think it's good for us to be aware of the reality of the amount of things, whether it's dual enrollment students have to come to a separate door at these seven minutes to sign into this authentication thing or this log for this English class or what does this mean or do schools have to find out if a program uses an algorithm? Like, we're take the world of media is the world we live in and schools are just swept up in that and once again, like, sort of paying the price and have to deal with and problem solve, and this is just a so this is not against the bill at all. It's just a reminder, I think. [Speaker 7 ]: Cool. Replicates? And a simple matter. Good. So I'm if they were no source for the game's goal, but that's as we're seeing this, it's becoming a very large topic with a lot of different loopholes and factors involved with that. Yeah. We focused on the communication part of it and didn't necessarily deal with the education part [Wilson Garland]: unless and putting word in there, you know, something about restricting [Speaker 7 ]: as much as possible the use of social media and curriculum or whatever, you know. But have this mostly be focused on the communication tool between the school [Chair Peter Conlon]: and the students. [Speaker 7 ]: So I'm just kinda throwing that out there because I I [Wilson Garland]: the education part is a whole even [Speaker 7 ]: though I would love to have not happen, it's a whole bigger discussion [Chair Peter Conlon]: that communication are [Wilson Garland]: Yeah. I I I [Chair Peter Conlon]: do to Leanne's point, I I do think that you know, we're getting we've had lots of calls about we need to have media literacy curriculum and understanding social media as part of media literacy, probably the most important part. [Representative Leanne Harple]: And I'll just add, you know, to back up what we heard from representative Harpal. I think we need to make sure that we are trusting our educators [Chair Peter Conlon]: to provide education to our kids. Mhmm. [Representative Leanne Harple]: Alright. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I think what we'll do is, first of all, take a break. But second, have you and Beth talk a little bit about some language there. Would the I'm I'm gonna ask if everybody is okay with this, come back with a version of this that sort of talks out that that removes the sort of social media in education part of it, but keeps it in the control of direct communication, not using social media somehow. [Representative Erin Brady]: You wanna keep the or approve by the school benefits approved by the school district. Okay. [Wilson Garland]: That's the one I'll guess. Language. Yeah. These two. [Representative Erin Brady]: So you wanna pull maybe I should share my screen. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: Do you wanna do that now or do you wanna do it? I do have an email out to two attorneys from the social media admissions law center. Do it or do it or wanna wait to see if they have a better way to find it that makes it less cumbersome. [Wilson Garland]: It it I'll just have to just we're just talking about [Chair Peter Conlon]: that we need some paragraphs. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Be okay. Exactly. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: I I don't think they're see, generally, I don't know how the whole I [Speaker 7 ]: don't think the discussion is the end. Okay. No. Yeah. It's the focal point. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So you [Representative Leanne Harple]: wanna keep one word. [Speaker 7 ]: No. No. We're gonna keep [Representative Erin Brady]: one. [Chair Peter Conlon]: You're gonna work with representative Taylor. Works there. [Representative Erin Brady]: About records retention and yep. What are we doing here? [Wilson Garland]: Yeah. I kinda like number two, though, still. It was an issue I could be talking about. Right? Yep. It's it's the two b part Or not two. That we may not need to add. Right? [Chair Peter Conlon]: So you are Beth, you other Beth, Beth, you are liking two and b? [Wilson Garland]: No. Two. Like, we because that was brought up because I was part of, like, let's not even talk about social media. Let's get rid of that entire section Yeah. And focus on the bell to bell band of cell phones and not even get into any of this in this bill, but people wanted to. But people seem to talk on law about number two. If you're asking kids to be on Facebook for practice schedules, it sucks you into other stuff. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. [Wilson Garland]: Or, you know, so keeping two, but it's the b that [Chair Peter Conlon]: Again, we have to define social media. That's our [Representative Erin Brady]: our Yeah. [Wilson Garland]: I think I think b still needs to stay in in some form. Yeah. Okay. Because schools should have in place measures to prevent [Speaker 7 ]: students from accessing our social media on their [Chair Peter Conlon]: So every time we use social media, though, we have Yeah. We have to probably define it or I don't know. Do we have to define it? Can we just sort of throw it out there and everybody knows [Speaker 7 ]: how to do theirs? [Representative Erin Brady]: Yes. That is a policy option. You can [Chair Peter Conlon]: Let's think about forklift legal. [Wilson Garland]: But I then I wonder if we need to we need to testify and we need to understand that are those those filters exist. Are we talking about it, like, unfunded are we talking about schools that can divide new filters or different products than what is currently being used, which is not uniform in our Right. Highly customized state. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So we can say, if schools shall make efforts to prevent students from accessing it. [Wilson Garland]: Right. I mean, it doesn't have Well, it's [Speaker 7 ]: social script, but, like, I know in our district that there there are options to lock out YouTube. There are options to lock out different different social media Yeah. Different options. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: So in our SU, we actually block so that the service that students would be able to get on for Internet goes away from bell to bell. They can log in with their own Chromebook to this other school's protected network. So on their own devices, they can't unless they have a cell signal, which we don't really have a good one there, they can't get on any social media through any of the school's technology. Actually, we don't do YouTube anymore because YouTube now requires each student have their own logins. [Chair Peter Conlon]: You get a you get a response to that. [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: What schools can actually, on their stuff, block it. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. [Wilson Garland]: Now when the kid takes the Chromebook home at night. Okay. But so that's number two. Asking. Here's where I'm running into. So now are we saying that if wanna go. The volleyball team has an Instagram page. Students are not required. It is not like the coach says you have to be on Instagram, but if the students as a way of promoting the team take pictures and they have, you know, CVU volleyball or CVU Robohawks and they make it in I guess asking and requiring, does that mean as long as it's just, like, sort of organically happening by students? Like, students are are going to have [Chair Peter Conlon]: Mhmm. [Wilson Garland]: Online presence and clubs around sports, extracurriculars, school spot, like that. We're not dealing in that? [Chair Peter Conlon]: We're not dealing in that. [Wilson Garland]: Check that out. Okay. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Listen. What's that's what what is being yeah. What a school is requiring something of students. [Wilson Garland]: What's a nasty? [Representative Joshua Dobrovich]: We're in a code we're in a team a school team that creates a team page. So as long as are you we're saying that as long as they don't require the students to be on that page, we're safe. And there there's that it that's a [Wilson Garland]: safe scenario. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Saying anything that specific, but I think that's the implication. [Wilson Garland]: What I wonder about the app came out like Yeah. I mean [Chair Peter Conlon]: So just think of that. I was happy to inquire. Inquiring. [Wilson Garland]: Mhmm. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. [Wilson Garland]: I'm there with just Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Because I can say, hey. Could while you're there, could you snap some pictures so we can put it on, right, the school's Instagram page? Sure. Alright. We're we're we're gonna stop there. We've given you some big Big. Concept. It was. Yep. Then we won't necessarily ask you, but we will think about it, and then you may hear from one of us.

Play Clip Play Full Video Pause

SmartTranscript of House Education - 2025-05-01 - 9:00 AM

This is useful for seeing what happened at the meeting without wading through the whole transcript: