SmartTranscript of House Education - 2025-02-25 - 11:30 AM

[Annie Gianni]: And you are live. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Okay. We are House Education, if I'm not mistaken. February twenty fifth twenty twenty five. Setting a half hour with the committee to discuss our input to the house appropriations committee on requests that have come before us that they are the ones that have made a decision on, but would welcome our input. Representative Quinby has been putting together kind of a nice spreadsheet for us to walk through it again. We'll take a look at it. And maybe you can sort of update us as to the ones we've sort of checked off. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Oh, let's see. So the first one is the state board of ed and talked about that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Well, we'll we'll come we'll come back to it. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: VSAC, I think we talked about pretty thoroughly maybe. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I mean, we you you we confirmed that they are actually asking for Three percent three point six percent increase in the base funding, [Most likely Beth Quimby]: but that is in line with the governor's recommend exactly. [Chair Peter Conlon]: And then the other three things sort of one time. Yep. So we're all on board with VTech? Wow. [Speaker 3 ]: Okay. Sorry. I keep going. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I'm just [Speaker 3 ]: trying to get my letter straight. I'm I'm writing [Chair Peter Conlon]: the letter [Speaker 3 ]: in my head as we're going in. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Alright. Well, alright. Let's talk about VSEK. I assume nobody has anything to raise about their three point six percent increase. And are people comfortable with law basically saying to them, we support these onetime programs. However, we are realistic about the availability and state dollars for them. The dollars. [Speaker 4 ]: So the Vermont teacher for give up [Most likely Beth Quimby]: a loan program, that's new money. It was funded two years ago. Okay. And then so that's It's out of money. It's out of money. So [Speaker 5 ]: that's You [Chair Peter Conlon]: know, people are okay with adding some fairly strong support for it. Support the program. Because it has been successful. [Speaker 3 ]: Teacher loan repayment isn't huge. Shortage? Yes. Teacher loan repayment is huge. [Speaker 6 ]: Quickly say that I was [Chair Peter Conlon]: just told by a superintendent, but [Annie Gianni]: a superintendent saying that not one student signed up for education programs at Keene State College this year, which is incredibly unusual. [Speaker 6 ]: Yeah. Whatever we can do to support that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. Yeah. If somebody testified that in Massachusetts, they graduated one special education program. [Speaker 4 ]: Three. I think it was. [Speaker 6 ]: It was three. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: It was terrible. But [Chair Peter Conlon]: Oh, yes. Just scary for the future. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Yeah. We have we have good testimony from Scott about that program if they wanna pull some details into the letter to back it up. Oh. We have those documents. And the date they were in was February second. Oh, no. The one you just It came back. [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. Yeah. How many teachers [Annie Gianni]: Yes. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: How many they couldn't fund Yep. Where they're going. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. And Go ahead. I'm sorry. I would [Speaker 4 ]: say for the narrative, what's useful there is that they've done some really good work with the higher ed partners now. So [Most likely Beth Quimby]: if it goes away [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. [Speaker 4 ]: Kinda all that finally got up and going. Save Myx, UVM. They're finally, like, connecting people to it. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. That number matches the four million dollars that the AI was looking for for their consultants. Mhmm. Alright. UVM, I assume three percent everybody's okay with. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Yeah. And, again, I can't find it [Speaker 4 ]: in their documents just to [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. I I I think they said they're It's whatever percent. [Speaker 3 ]: And where did we land with their sort of five year, one million a year? You know? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. So that's our next [Speaker 3 ]: Matching the matching gifts. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Next question. You know, again, we're sort of lucky and that we could be supportive, understanding the reality of things. [Speaker 5 ]: Do you [Speaker 4 ]: need to rank things, though, if we're Yes. If we're sort of hedging here, we have [Chair Peter Conlon]: to [Speaker 4 ]: rank them? [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Are we ready to rank yet? Or should [Chair Peter Conlon]: we Well, I think well, let's go through what we have right because I think when we talk about the ones that we're completely okay with, they're already in the governor's budget as is. That's why. Necessarily need to rank those. It's these extras that we're gonna need to to do. So the tech hub and the Vermont Cancer Center, I'd quite almost defer to Vermont Cancer Center to the health care committee to weigh in on somebody else. That's a good point. And same with the tech hub, that's really a commerce committee thing. That's about Even though it's global boundaries. Yeah. So maybe we will we will just say, while generally supportive, we would defer to the recommendation by our committee's jurisdiction. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Is the Vermont Cancer Center to treat cancer or to research cancer? Research. [Chair Peter Conlon]: State colleges. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Alright. Because yeah. The only thing that's really different is the last item, that maintenance piece, is significant the governor's significantly different than the ask. The others are pretty close. In fact, actually, they're asking for less than the governor would recommend on one. And [Chair Peter Conlon]: I I would just say that the the state colleges ask other other than But they is in line with the state's commitment to its transformation and we strongly support it. And we can really much [Most likely Beth Quimby]: And some of the maintenance projects were in the governor's recommend as well for a different amount. Yeah. But [Chair Peter Conlon]: I I would [Speaker 4 ]: I would think this [Chair Peter Conlon]: allow us an out on this one is, generally, infrastructure needs at the state college system are recommended or not recommended by the institutions committee. That's right. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I would say we deferred them on [Most likely Beth Quimby]: So, again, supportive and deferred from the jurisdiction. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: The four million from AOE, we'll hear from them tomorrow. [Speaker 4 ]: No. That's in smaller [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. The Heart Association grant for schools to implement cardiac emergency response. We had don't even really have the testimony yet. We have a bill. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: And did just write in response because [Chair Peter Conlon]: they weren't They did. We also have a bill talking about cardiac teams. I would say that for this one, it should be tied to a bill, and the bill has not been produced. [Speaker 4 ]: Did it come out today? [Chair Peter Conlon]: No. I've I've been So we've had it for a while. We've and we have they're they're scheduled to come in this week. Yeah. Okay. H two points. So let's let's not speak to that. Okay. If you decide to move ahead with the bill, the money will be attached to that. That would go through. So process. K. Governors Institute is in line with the with the usual ask. Well, [Speaker 4 ]: there's an increase more than the They want three percent. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Three percent above the The governor's recommend was the exact same base funding as last year, and they want three percent. [Chair Peter Conlon]: The governor's institute has been kinda chronically underfunded year after year. But to me, again, three percent seems in the line with everything else. [Annie Gianni]: We did give them a [Chair Peter Conlon]: To the base? [Annie Gianni]: Or we Yeah. I think we increased their base. Right? For folks who've been here. I remember they made a very compelling case that they really hadn't been given an increase in a long time, and we I'm pretty sure we did give them an increase. [Chair Peter Conlon]: May have recommended, but did you actually give it to [Annie Gianni]: I think so. [Chair Peter Conlon]: You just made me think. That's the [Speaker 6 ]: question I have because I haven't been on this committee for the last few years, but [Chair Peter Conlon]: you guys obviously have been doing this. [Speaker 6 ]: How much work does the Governors Institute do to reach students who come from marginalized backgrounds and that sort of thing? [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Fair. We have updates on that. Yep. [Speaker 4 ]: Like, material we've gotten says that a large percentage of the students [Chair Peter Conlon]: They make it very affordable. Scholarship. Yeah. I I could [Speaker 6 ]: that was Yeah. Just I was just curious about the folks that I [Chair Peter Conlon]: I suspect they can probably provide some significant testimonies, and they work very hard to reach all populations and provide scholarships. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. I think they did. Because I remember thinking a long time ago when I was in high school, I don't you know, Outreach wasn't, like, robust in the terms like, it never really crossed my radar, but I think they did come in and say that they have been targeting certain, you know, school communities that have not historically participated. But I can't remember beyond that. [Speaker 5 ]: As a parent, we just went through this about a year or so ago with my daughter going through the for the school counselor, set up a parent meeting there. They talked a lot about the governors' history. They talked about the scholarships, etcetera, [Chair Peter Conlon]: about the other governors' history. [Speaker 5 ]: So they they definitely I don't know if our school just did that on their own, but there's definitely outreach to us. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I [Speaker 6 ]: guess I what I the reason and I and I think they've always had [Chair Peter Conlon]: Would you like them to provide the testimony? [Speaker 6 ]: No. I I don't. But because I'm a little outside of the circle right at the moment after the last four years of not doing this. But what I I guess if we were I I I'm not asking to do it for this year, but I do think in the future, we should be asking for how many students are taking advantage of those scholarships. I do think their goal has always been to do that, and I I just really wanna make sure that students who may not even be on a path to college would be [Chair Peter Conlon]: right for this. [Speaker 4 ]: Annie, can you post? I'm just sending the you the documents. Thank you. [Speaker 6 ]: I didn't mean to hold us up. I just started [Most likely Beth Quimby]: to post. The documents [Speaker 4 ]: so everybody can access on the activity page. Is there [Speaker 6 ]: a request in a [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I'm hearing support for a three percent if everybody's getting three percent anyway. Farm to school Yes. For example even know what any of those things mean. [Speaker 4 ]: So there were two programs, five hundred thousand each. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Oh, gotcha. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: A farm to school early childhood [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: And local yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 4 ]: And there's five hundred thousand each in [Most likely Beth Quimby]: the last year, and they invested five hundred thousand each again. Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: Is that level funding? Is that level? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Like, we haven't had we haven't had any presentation on it. I would, again, defer [Most likely Beth Quimby]: They were they came in. [Chair Peter Conlon]: They came in. Oh, they came in free school. K. Yeah. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Kids came in and saw all the kids. Kids [Annie Gianni]: are coordinated. Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: They'll get more. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I I don't think you were here. [Speaker 6 ]: I know. [Speaker 5 ]: They didn't ask. Meetings. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. Again, I I'm sure this is really something that And should be Thank you. Waiting on. Okay. Advance Vermont. This is a big one. It's a big change. It's what we need to talk about. It's a big change from They're asking for base funding. They have been Oh, that's year after year. Yep. And their funding has been kind of out all over the place as well. [Speaker 6 ]: Yeah. Well, it's been three fifty for two years and then down [Speaker 4 ]: to one [Chair Peter Conlon]: fifty and then it back up to two fifty. Mhmm. Let me put you on a talk about this. I think [Speaker 4 ]: it's a useful tool that has a lot of potential. Yes. [Speaker 6 ]: I do too. [Chair Peter Conlon]: But And can it it's [Speaker 4 ]: it's I know it's being supported by the. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I mean, can it achieve its potential without, like, being able to count on funding each year? [Speaker 6 ]: I I think what we heard was the the intention to grow this [Chair Peter Conlon]: year, and that's one of the reasons why. Yeah. The feedback. So if we were something that says, we support the efforts of Advance Vermont, and we support and and we believe with the potential of this and agree that it needs sustained funding in order to prove itself. Let me people feel about that and really appropriations can decide whether that's base funding or five year funding or three year funding. [Speaker 5 ]: That sounds right. I gotta [Chair Peter Conlon]: hear you that. So I think it's appropriate for much better [Speaker 5 ]: place. Tell her to decide if [Chair Peter Conlon]: it's one of the biggest service. Okay. Were you okay with that? Yep. Alright, Brian. You're off. [Annie Gianni]: So, like you said, you all have heard me say various things in support of the Hunger Pay Vermont request for a hundred and eighty two thousand this year. So and they Hunger Free did come in briefly, and we all received in our emails sort of a one to two pager explaining what this request is. So, essentially, this is to support small family home child care providers in accessing federal funding to do meals and snacks for the kids that they're serving. So this is a you know, as federal programs can be a little bit complicated, this in order to draw down the federal funding, there needs to be a fiscal agent. And so across the state of Vermont, I think there are currently three fiscal agents, but the state has actually lost a couple of sponsoring fiscal agents due to the fact that the current federal reimbursement doesn't appropriately cover their cost to help with administering the program. They have to do a couple of site visits every year. So, essentially, what's what's currently there to keep the program running isn't enough to sustain it. It's definitely not enough to grow it, which is ideally what we would want. [Speaker 3 ]: So that's pretty important. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, we've definitely I think talking to folks about drawing down federal funding is a pretty popular topic of conversation. So it it checks that box, which I think is great. And I actually sent Anur from Hunger Free Vermont a question at the end of last week because, I suspected sort of based on the part of Vermont where I grew up that family home childcare providers are serving, a lot of communities where there aren't a lot of other childcare options. So the rural pockets of the state like Rutland County. And my sense, which she confirmed, is they serve more sort of low and middle income families and larger child care centers and other settings, you know, maybe in more population dense areas of the state. So, personally, I'm I'm very supportive of this. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Do we know that AOE is or isn't in favor of taking all this the money aside, they now have to become a fiscal agent? Did you ever hear from them at all? [Annie Gianni]: Yes. My my understanding is that this that AOE is part of this. Amy, you're, like, [Chair Peter Conlon]: trying to to see over there. Yeah. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: And our understanding is that Rosie Krueger, who runs the child nutrition program, is supporting [Chair Peter Conlon]: this request and and administer. Okay. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: And I believe she's planning to send them [Chair Peter Conlon]: the call to us at the. [Annie Gianni]: Oh, great. This this [Chair Peter Conlon]: is sort of in our daily with mainly because it's just an added responsibility for AOE. I kinda Yeah. Feel like it's We need to sort of farm schoolish and that it's it's really Food resiliency. Food resiliency kind of thing. I would offer our support, I guess, period Yep. That that it is our understanding that we could say that it's our understanding that AOE is ready to administer the program and that it helps draw down federal dollars. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Okay. [Annie Gianni]: There's a staff person. I noticed I found in our directory, there's a staff person at the agency, apparently, [Chair Peter Conlon]: in charge of this. So Doctor Rosie. Yeah. Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: Someone in addition to Rosie. It's Rosie. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Alright. Let's go to the big one, which is the State Board of Education. So I personally they they just pitched to appropriations while caucuses are going on. So they have had the they they're both the the chair and the vice chair from the State Board of Education were in there. So they've they've got the pitch. I personally am strongly in support of this because I've been here for nine years. And for nine years, we've been trying to get everything sort of done that's on the docket for the State Board of Education so that they can sort of start anew, figure out who really should be doing what. It seem to have been held up a lot by the fact that they've got a lot on their plate. They're busy with that. I would also just say that I I do feel they're underpaid for the amount of time they put in. It's not just the meetings. They spent probably significantly even more time in committee work, especially when they're reviewing independent school applications, all the other things that they have to do, doing rule making. It would just be nice to sort of clean it all out, clean out the backlog as they do want it, and, you know, kinda treat them as the board that they are set up to be with their resources, not just for the members, but for hiring the staff that they need. So that's my pitch. And it's for the this is a open discussion. Yes, please. [Speaker 6 ]: So I guess this is a more of a question and and and more of a recall on my from my brain. But I was just reminded that in the past, before the agency became an agency and was a department and that there was a commissioner, the funding for the state board, something like this, updating all the rules and all that, would have just come through the AOE. But Well, [Chair Peter Conlon]: I was a we were told not just the money, but staff was there. [Speaker 6 ]: Right. And and we were told clearly. So remind me if I'm wrong, but my recollection is that recently, they were told again or maybe it was a repeat that they no attorney was available from the. And and all of this sort of feels frustrating, yes, to me about the governance [Chair Peter Conlon]: of all of this. [Speaker 6 ]: Just it's a comment and a [Chair Peter Conlon]: I appreciate that. Yes. So what they told us was that or as as you pointed out that it used to be they were in charge of the department before they had access to all the department resources. They are not any longer. Those resources are frankly at the whim. By resources, I mean, lawyers, all that are at the whim of the secretary. Yes, [Speaker 6 ]: Pat. So in support of of [Most likely Beth Quimby]: cleaning up the rules as they said it now, not just because of questions that were brought up by them that changes at the federal level may require states to really have their rule ducks in a row even more so. And so getting that process done. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Let me see if I I I would the other thing is they also would like to go through everything and pull [Most likely Beth Quimby]: out all junk. What they don't need. Put in what's missing. Delineate who's responsible [Chair Peter Conlon]: for that. Just so you know, I [Speaker 5 ]: was not saying opposing this. I just wanted [Chair Peter Conlon]: to make it very clear that this was right. Yeah. Yeah. Are we all we all comfortable with that? [Speaker 5 ]: Mhmm. I mean, well, we obviously have some decision for us. Right? I think they they definitely have been underfunded and especially for their their pay for the meetings and Yep. Absolutely. We need the rules to get modernized. Yep. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. Now, you know, the the pay for the meetings, you know, whether it's five thousand or three thousand, whatever, we'll we'll leave that up to, you know, appropriations. Alright. That's this is great. Roni [Most likely Beth Quimby]: the rank [Chair Peter Conlon]: of Okay. Spread it. [Speaker 4 ]: Alright. To do that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So you've heard in fact, the state board money for me is is very important just given the history. And if we're gonna move we can't really move forward until we clean up what we've done. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: State boards up there. I don't mean I will I hope anybody else feels that. No. I do. I do. [Annie Gianni]: Agree with that. [Speaker 3 ]: I do. And yeah. I think that I've been convinced their role is pretty important [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: In the things that happen here. So let's let's give them some means. [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. I would totally agree. I think statewide capacity is extremely important, has been underfunded and under realized for years. And I'll preface that it may seem hypocritical about to say that I have huge concerns about the four million education transformation. If it was four million for AOE full time staff and, you know, Vermont jobs and, like, more embedding in the field, I would be strongly supporting it. But I think we have to be investing in long term sustained capacities and state part of that is, you know, they're [Most likely Beth Quimby]: here for the long term. [Speaker 4 ]: And jumping ahead, I know, because we're gonna get some testimony tomorrow, but this is, I suspect, gonna be a challenging maybe a challenging discussion for us. I'm very opposed to four million dollars in one time funds that's likely consultants when we really need ongoing capacity leadership being grounded in the Vermont context of the AOB. That was being used differently, I'd be highly supportive of it. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. And we'll get we'll hold it. Oh, you're not gonna be here. Thank you. Bye. I said, we'll we'll get we have more on the a week, Tom, but I'll put you down as a strongly in favor of the four million if it were being used for sustained support to the field embedded in the AOE. Mhmm. Otherwise, highly skeptical. Yes. Alright. But we we're you're jumping on around on this here. [Speaker 6 ]: Then what's number two? Vermont [Most likely Beth Quimby]: State College system. I think they've really made quite a significant turnaround in the last few years in the right direction. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I wanna support to continue [Most likely Beth Quimby]: I mean, again, the dollar amounts will be up to appropriations. But [Chair Peter Conlon]: Can can we say we we strongly support all of the Progress. All of the We continue to make VSAC, UVM, and State College base increases, especially as they're in line with the governor. It's trying to fix it. Controversial, but it's the it's the other aspect. [Speaker 4 ]: Break the other aspect. The the VSAC one, the freedom and unity scholarship is really a big Vermont State College thing too. I mean, that's a so [Chair Peter Conlon]: Are there [Speaker 4 ]: that as a high priority to increase college access to Vermonters? Those are gonna be probably a lot of first generation. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I'm going to strongly support this, and I'm gonna stop speak really quickly because Chris and I have to leave the twelve so you can recall it there. But here's why. So we're gonna have to decide about the affordability of the education fund. Then the education fund is four million dollars, I think, for early college. That's paid for by property tax dollars within the education fund. You know, early college is a nice thing. Can we afford it? Early college is also a pretty important revenue source for the state college system, which, you know, is is not to be discounted. The question is is should that support doing if for the state colleges that that come out of the education Yeah. Or the general fund. And to me, I would much rather see this, which is that we decided in the general fund every year whether it's it's a values judgment as to whether we do it as to to supplant early college. It also would really hit the people for whom early college was designed. So that's sort of my big picture support of that. Specifically, the freedom immunity. Specifically, the freedom immunity. I do too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you all for this. That sounds great. Good. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Well, yeah. I'm not sure [Speaker 5 ]: about everyone else on there. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Sorry. The wheels were still turning in my head. [Speaker 4 ]: Well, there we're gonna have further testimony and discussion about the early college piece Thursday. There are a lot of pieces about, you know, people say it shouldn't be in the ed fund. It shouldn't be in the ed fund. There's a few that are probably easier for us to look at more closely. Like, that is straight out of the flexible pathways program. Like, it it it's not as, you know, universal meals, that's not really in our purview anymore. So when we talk about, like, sort of taking things out of the Ed Fund, early college is one of the things that has been has come up again and again as a. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Shall we just say, boy, if you could find the money, we strongly support with my teacher forgivable loan program. Absolutely. [Speaker 4 ]: I mean, it seems like at whatever, even if it was half, you know, it was two point five that [Speaker 6 ]: Whatever we can [Speaker 4 ]: You know, anything will get used up. Yeah. So [Chair Peter Conlon]: Demand is high. Need is high. And, Rob, whatever you can work in about sort of the relationship that's been built up with the higher ed is [Speaker 3 ]: Yep. And so have we had a I mean, have we come to any decision about sort of the the one time gifts for the technology and the cancer center? [Chair Peter Conlon]: At UVM? We we we're going to defer. Okay. Right. Right. I'm sorry. [Speaker 3 ]: Right. I wrote that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Other than the lease of jurisdiction. Got it. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: It does seem like a good time to be funding the cancer risk. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. [Speaker 3 ]: Yeah. And we can say that too in a couple words. [Chair Peter Conlon]: There's all these ones that talk about drawing down federal dollars. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Yeah. I know. That's I know. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. Assuming [Chair Peter Conlon]: Oh, yeah. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Well, and it's not like, the gift is I don't know that it's federal dollars. It's just other [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. That's right. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Other monies. Stable Private monies and matching funds. [Speaker 3 ]: Right. These are the [Chair Peter Conlon]: matching funds. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: Not necessarily. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Alright. So, again, state colleges, UVM's baselines, we'll just put those in a general agreement with them. AOE will set aside for the moment. Yep. The Heart Association money should really be attached to the bill that it wants to to be part of. Covers Institute, three percent bump. Our school defer to the other committee. Advance Vermont. So, you know, where do you wanna put Advance Vermont in the lineup of everything else? That's to think about and say for the hundred and eighty two thousand, which is a pretty small number. Are we referring that to food resiliency also? I think we'd exactly we support it. [Most likely Beth Quimby]: If it they have the capacity. [Chair Peter Conlon]: And and we understand that the AOE is ready to Yep. Okay. We're gonna stop there just because Chris and I have to go and do the the weekly or the every other week, the speaker does a podcast.

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SmartTranscript of House Education - 2025-02-25 - 11:30 AM

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