SmartTranscript of House Education - 2025-02-21 - 1:30 PM

[Annie Gianni]: And you're not live. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Welcome to House Education, February twenty first twenty twenty five. This is really a committee discussion as we prepare to send a memo to the Appropriations Committee with our take on various budget requests that have come before this committee as well as before appropriations. It's really to provide them with guidance. What we say does not necessarily go because they've gotta make pretty significant challenging financial decisions based on a limited budget. We have a little more leeway to say we love all our children equally, and we're unwilling to divide them and then pass that off to them. We'll try to do our best to give them the best guidance that we can. Priority. So I'm gonna turn this over to our appropriation committee liaisons to kinda walk us through what we have here. So is it yeah. Go ahead. If you could skip all that. [Annie Gianni]: So just started a bit of a draft based on an example from last year. So right yellow, some stuff that's missing. And I made some notes on the side of sort of what it was what it was last year or what they've asked for. This time Yep. I am gonna add someone recommended that having the governor's take on it, recommend. So I'm gonna add that in. Sometimes it was there, and sometimes it wasn't. So I'm gonna go back and work through that. Like, the UVM, I had it in my notebook what they'd asked for, but I didn't have to find it in the in the document. So I know it's a three percent increase in base funding, but I don't have the dollar figure. I gotta look look for that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: You know, I I would say don't knock yourself out. Three percent is in line with what the governor's record is. Yes. That's sort of hard to argue with. [Annie Gianni]: And the largest chunk missing was the AOE request because I couldn't find the up down document, but I now have that, so I can add that all in. And then there were smaller requests in the second part of this. Scroll down. And the governor's institute, I've now received that. I now have that document, so I now have I can put that in. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I just wanna point out that nobody's been before us from the Heart Association. [Annie Gianni]: No. There was a letter. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. Nobody's been before us before from the governor's institute. [Annie Gianni]: Well, I had the other two come in. I could separate out the farm to school on two lines like I did for some of the others, [Speaker 2 ]: but it was one of [Annie Gianni]: the first ones I did. So and it was, you know, their level level funding for two of their programs. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Would you please look in the so in general, the AOE budget has had an area where they had this little small grants that they put out k. Such as, I think, outright Vermont had sixty thousand. Barber School would be good to just note those. Yep. In the grant section. [Annie Gianni]: I said I now have that document sent to me today. So Yeah. Go through the AOE plus, fill those in. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So let's go back up to the top. So the [Annie Gianni]: state board request Is to have their own line item. Yeah. Because to this point, whatever they get is just part of the AEs budget. And, again, now that I have that document, I can get that that figure. [Chair Peter Conlon]: But I just did it's this is a departure from business as usual. Yes. They you know, they have generally gotten very small amount of money and then had to rely on the agency to provide the services that they need. And that's you know, as the agency is doing more and more, I think, in educational transformation as well as sort of just implementing the secretary's vision for what the agencies should be, I think that they are less and less able to provide that. Nice. You know, we we have I would I would say we have neglected the state board tremendously. And there I would also say that as we are looking at major education transformation, You know, we're gonna discuss the role of the state board. But I I guess I'm going to guess that we're gonna come down on the side of not transferring. Well, let's just let's just think about that if we were to come down on the side of not transferring all of its power to the other elite. If we're gonna do major transformation, they're gonna be counted on to play a major role in that. Lots and lots and lots of rules are gonna have to be written. So maybe kinda turbocharging them with the resources that they need is something [Speaker 3 ]: Which this [Chair Peter Conlon]: this commission is worth is worth considering. [Annie Gianni]: Second line is some one time funding to update existing goals. Right. Even need to be modern ized and updated. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. Yeah. They're not even talking about Let's say you have to translate. Ask them to do in the future, but, you know, they have they have lamented for years. One, the pay is is atrocious. It's embarrassing what we asked them to do. But also, they have said we we're trying to do this. We're trying to do this. And, frankly, we, every year, talk about OT. We really should try to, you know, figure out what the role of AOE and the SBE is our You do send that every year. Every year. Every year. [Annie Gianni]: Say it every year. [Chair Peter Conlon]: But, you know, something is a little hard to sort of have that conversation until they kinda clean out the backlog of stuff that's resting on their shoulders. I think it's a huge distraction from finally being able to clearly define what they wanna do. If you remember from their presentation, what they'd like to do is also go through it and do that themselves as well and say, first of all, this, we don't even need to nobody needs to do. Right. There was a This stuff is ridiculous for us to do. [Annie Gianni]: It's decades out of date. Yes. No. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: It's a little hard for us to kinda judge the amounts because Right. I got a second bit. VSEC's VSEC, anybody wanna talk yay or nay? I mean, that three point six is pretty much within the governor's recommended. [Annie Gianni]: And I think it was. Okay. Again, I can now go back and and add that. And then there were the three basically new things that they were asking for. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Seems oh, alright. We got the freedom and unity scholarship five point two. Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: Now I might have to go back to that line about the teacher forgivable long term because there might have been a dollar amount in there before. So that's not new. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Although Or is it? I recently [Speaker 4 ]: read that say it stopped. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Correct. It was we had we had a a slug of one time dollars that we're gonna report it, and it and it's been used up. So the question is, if it is to keep going, I think I think Aaron has asked them for a dollar. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. And the other two are new forgivable loan. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. What was the somebody remind me the freedom freedom of community scholarship? I'd have to [Annie Gianni]: look back at the document to see what that was. I don't know. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Is that an income based bill? It was definitely to or was it to Raw. Family income of a hundred thousand a year to seventy thousand a year. I know [Annie Gianni]: the state college and the UVM ones were about that. Don't think these But there's [Chair Peter Conlon]: nothing that's supposed to match it. Alright. Which rate [Speaker 4 ]: it was rate raising from Well, we'll just seventy five to a hundred. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We'll wait for the Internet to come up with that. Yeah. Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: I can add that detail in to my spreadsheet too. [Speaker 4 ]: And this will all be part of the narrative I'm assuming. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. And, again, we don't have to say we absolutely object to this. But what we do have to do is we have to break it off. Okay. What are the chances of appropriations saying yes to five, six, call it seven, eight million dollars extra. [Speaker 5 ]: Right. We have [Chair Peter Conlon]: we have to make a pretty convincing argument. Right. So, you know, even we we can say we support it, but we should do that with the with the Visa ID. [Speaker 4 ]: Right. [Annie Gianni]: Let me sign it. Visa address. [Speaker 4 ]: Oh, boy. [Annie Gianni]: You can just scroll all the way down to Freedom and Unity. Five five point two million for the creation of the freedom and unity scholarship for students attending Vermont State universities. So perhaps, it is that to switch it from the one hundred to the seventy five like UVM is doing? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. It's a I don't think I think I think that is to actually just simply create. [Annie Gianni]: For the Vermont State College. [Speaker 3 ]: Yeah. I [Speaker 4 ]: think it's the other way around that that the base had been seventy five, and they're raising the family income too on a thousand. [Annie Gianni]: They'd like to. [Speaker 5 ]: Right. Right. [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. For the free tuition. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Thought they were dropping. No. No. No. They're No. No. They're they're raising it up [Speaker 3 ]: to us. [Annie Gianni]: They're raising it. [Speaker 4 ]: So if a family are I'm [Chair Peter Conlon]: sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. [Speaker 3 ]: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh, god. [Annie Gianni]: So, yeah, I'll go back and add those details in. But a three percent increase in their base funding was the governor's ask also. [Chair Peter Conlon]: One million for tech hub. Anybody wanna talk about any of these individually? Did that one is that one There was a seemed That was a scratching of it. Exactly. That one seemed like it would [Annie Gianni]: be hard not to do it. Well, the with the cancer center, the five million it was actually five million over five years. So for that year, it'd be one million, but that is to get matching grants for the Vermont Cancer Center to show that they mean business to be able [Chair Peter Conlon]: to get some [Annie Gianni]: more money coming from other sources. [Chair Peter Conlon]: What about the the one time for the tech hub, I thought, was also Could be required for for Google Foundries to get [Annie Gianni]: Yes. Matching. [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. That was a weakness or we can't get. They want they they want to show that the statement's above. Right? Yeah. That, like, committed [Chair Peter Conlon]: yet. We should get some clarity around that as well as if these are matches, required match. It may require you guys rewatching the testimony. [Annie Gianni]: But yeah. Because I didn't see the documents that Yeah. That in that much detail. And then Vermont State Colleges. I think that [Chair Peter Conlon]: their request was all within the the traditional [Annie Gianni]: It was not. The first one I was I I had made note of the first one. It's one one million five hundred thousand dollars over the governor's recommended. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. But the governor so I would just say that there is a difference. I think that there is a difference I guess [Speaker 2 ]: I did put the number. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Between the governor's recommended and They had. What what the five year plan was for the state colleges as sort of promised by the legislature. Right? [Annie Gianni]: And so, like, on the the maintenance piece, they had given us information for future years as well. Yeah. You know, the total was, like, twenty two million. [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: But if you look at just f y twenty six, it's that figure. But they gave us future figures as well for that long range plan of updating the facilities. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I can go back. Yeah. We should all Right. We're all going to go back. [Annie Gianni]: That document's very nice. It was very all [Chair Peter Conlon]: of this. F y twenty six, basically, overall, it's less than [Speaker 5 ]: they got last they got an f y twenty five. Right? [Annie Gianni]: Vaughn State. Apologies. Totally. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. The total [Speaker 5 ]: is much less. [Annie Gianni]: Right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Those numbers can't be ranked right now. [Annie Gianni]: Well, because there was quite a buy down. It's the bridge fund tapering down. [Speaker 6 ]: The bridge fund tapering down. [Annie Gianni]: That big eleven million to five million Yep. Because of the bridge funding. So there's a huge decrease there in the amount that makes up that difference. [Chair Peter Conlon]: That totally makes sense. [Annie Gianni]: What's the Yeah. I should say that bridge funding. I'll put that detail on. [Chair Peter Conlon]: And and then the base of the fifty one to the fifty two [Annie Gianni]: Let me find that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: What's our percentage there? [Annie Gianni]: So in their general fund budget so there were two parts to it. I didn't know how detailed you wanted to get. So they have the Vermont State College General Fund. So their request like I said, it's it's slightly higher than the governor recommends. And then there's Allied Health General Fund, and that was exactly the same as the governors recommend. So the total difference was from the Vermont State College General Fund. The Allied Health Fund was exactly identical and slightly higher than [Chair Peter Conlon]: Oh, do they the fifty one to fifty four, what's that percentage? [Annie Gianni]: I'd have to do the math to get [Chair Peter Conlon]: my Do they have in do they have in their written testimony of why they're sort of from the governor? [Annie Gianni]: They not that I see [Chair Peter Conlon]: right here. Yeah. And I'll I'll spend a little bit this weekend reviewing the testimony there. [Annie Gianni]: And the and the big difference, the bridge funding, is is it and it was part of that, there was a CCV tuition advantage that was a million dollars. Again, I didn't break down within that eleven million. It was ten million in bridge funding and one million for CCV tuition advantage. And this year, they're not asking for that million. And then the bridge funding, it's only five. So that's why there's a a big drop there. The governor's recommend still had the million in there for CCV, but they are requesting there. Great. And then, you know, the maintenance projects, they've got statewide maintenance projects, and then they've got specific projects, the heating plant at Johnson and Jeffers Hall at Casselton. And, again, I didn't know if you want me to break it down in that much detail or just here's your total for facilities and maintenance that they've requested and [Chair Peter Conlon]: what the governor has recommended. [Annie Gianni]: And part of it is the Johnson. There's nothing the governors recommend for Johnson. I mean, sort of, like, Jefferson. And they have, you know, nine hundred thousand, basically, and then the following year, four point six million. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So I think Are you are you a Castleton grad? [Speaker 2 ]: I am. [Annie Gianni]: That's right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Jeffords Hall. [Speaker 4 ]: Trying to fix it. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Fix it? Which building that was. So [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. Why it's [Chair Peter Conlon]: officially No. It's all the locks on you. [Annie Gianni]: The actual construction would not be happening until Oh. Twenty seventh. So that's why the the request opens. [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. Take a beat, man. It's not even there yet. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I took the Praxis in there. Yeah. Feel like that was all back in [Annie Gianni]: five. Yeah. That was one where I thought there was a dramatic difference between what they asked for and what the governor's request was. It's, like, twenty one million versus eight million. Well, that's because they don't have just next year's. They have the following years also. And so those are, of course, appear as zero on the other batch. Well, back They're a little closer in line than I thought. We need rats [Chair Peter Conlon]: in there. Let's swing down to the other rats. It's a good one. AOE will be a big one that'll be coming. [Annie Gianni]: What what are those there. Adult this one there. [Speaker 4 ]: There you go. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Adult's big house is is already it's not extra. Yeah. It is either a combination out of the edge fund or not general fund. Yep. Lot of the big budget. Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: That'd be part of the AOE budget because there was an issue with that that representative felt this brought to our attention because they came in for the budget adjustment because the number of students was different, but that, I guess, a mistake or or that was carried over into the f y twenty six. I think there's still something that needs to be corrected. The appropriations is knows about it. The AOE knows about it. They're kinda figuring that piece out. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. So we had no presentation from the American Heart Association. [Annie Gianni]: No. Rep. Brady had a letter that they had sent that she had forwarded to me? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Oh, so for some of these, I guess, I would Here. I would offer again, [Annie Gianni]: I I wanna Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Drive the decision making here that we can just say we we did we did not receive a requested person Right. I'm and leave it up to appropriations to sort out. [Annie Gianni]: I figured it better if you put it on this and [Speaker 3 ]: Yep. [Annie Gianni]: Not ignore it. Same with some of the things on there. I'm like, I don't even know if that's an Ed. Either it's an Ed or they're, you know, like, Medicaid for in Doctor. Dinosaur, that wouldn't even be us anyway. No. The childcare Well, that's not us. And for the universal meals, it's us, but there was no fig figure. You just said protect it. It wasn't an actual [Chair Peter Conlon]: us. Universal School Meals, we can weigh in on, but Yeah. Really, that was in Okay. [Annie Gianni]: So again. I'm not sure anything except the first two are really I'm sure the second one was. [Chair Peter Conlon]: You know, Governor's Institute again, if you would check It's got the If you would check that in the AOE budget to see if it's Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: Again, that was just forwarded to me last month. And they haven't went in. Year. No. It is. Line. [Chair Peter Conlon]: No. Okay. It's just the line. It it usually does a line item visit. Yeah. Advanced Vermont is kind of the big one we have to talk about. Yep. [Speaker 4 ]: Oh, right. That guy. [Annie Gianni]: And it's farm to farm to school office one a. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right there. That's right. That okay. [Speaker 3 ]: Definitely. [Chair Peter Conlon]: So Advanced Vermont is so this is a a major departure from their funding Yeah. Request in years past. And, you know, we had the presentation. I'll tell you, we've had that presentation for several years. Always come away with it with the same reaction. Right? Like, this is great. All kids need to be exposed to this. I guess I'm a little like, okay. We've been saying this for years. Why aren't why why does Kate and Rob go, this is great. How come I don't know about it? Right. And so here's the the big debate with Advancement that I have in my head all the time. Is it more than just a website? And can it be more than just a website? And, you know, we don't again, we don't have to say no. I am definitely not happy to go. I think it's great. Yeah. Right. And I'd love to see the given the opportunity to really get out there and sell it. But it's a big big change about the rest. Can I ask you what what you what I'm [Speaker 2 ]: not quite sure what you mean by is it more than just a website? I I guess I would ask it. I mean, websites do an awful lot today. You know, link people to a lot of things. So I guess I'm not completely if if you're not convinced by students being able to access through a website resources, then I think we aren't getting the right information from it. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I Oh, no. I I it it where is you know, I guess, what I'm saying is if everybody is sold on it being a a great tool, which I believe it is, but one could argue they're they're maintaining a website. Is that enough? Is that worth three hundred fifty thousand dollars a year? Or is it really a tool that kids that really is I think that [Annie Gianni]: pushed on to kids? So I I think could speak to that a little bit. It's like you said, but how come teachers don't know about it? You know? Wouldn't this be great for my advisory time? So not just a website, but can it be, you know, educationally promoted? I mean, we started personal learning plans at my school in grade six only because we were six, seven, eight. So seventh and eighth graders were doing it, made sense for sixth graders. And I had different online Sure. Roles and but, you know, And career exploration starting in seventh grade. VSAC comes in. Good tool. So, basically, the difference in what they're asking is they got one time money. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. [Annie Gianni]: And instead of having two hundred, they would like base. [Chair Peter Conlon]: They got on the payroll last time. [Annie Gianni]: She just told me [Speaker 2 ]: it was the same [Annie Gianni]: They said according to their information, like, if they got three hundred fifty thousand in one time, but they would like that same three hundred fifty That's base. But to be base funding rather than one time. [Speaker 3 ]: That's [Annie Gianni]: That's the main difference in what they ask. [Speaker 2 ]: That's that's what I and [Annie Gianni]: so As I understood, Ted. I mean [Chair Peter Conlon]: so then our recommendation becomes Either a base or one time. I mean, one yeah. And I would say we can say whatever we like. Approach with that decision. I know Advance Vermont would be like take bay or one time instead of the nothing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But does anybody want to make an argument to say, no. Let's hold it at one time? [Annie Gianni]: Mhmm. I might only be and, again, there's a brainstorming. You know, technology changes, website changes, opportunities change. Does giving base funding to a particular website, is that an issue going into the future? Like, why are we still giving you this money if you're not even really operating this website anymore? I understand. Someone's doing this instead of and I don't know. They seem very on it. Well, I [Chair Peter Conlon]: also think that what they want is they want to take what they have and And and go and get them. [Annie Gianni]: Definitely. Yeah. That would be my only But but I [Chair Peter Conlon]: I think that that would be [Vice Chair Chris Taylor]: maybe it is one time funding this year. When they come back next year, they can bring us to say, this is where this is how it's changed. How we're gonna use that money to expand and get out there. Because if we do this, my I talked to my guys in there at RSU, he didn't know about it. So I'm curious as to, like, is this money really going towards getting it out there? If next time you're and it is, well, then we look at what's [Chair Peter Conlon]: I mean, that's that. It's a little hard to sort of have sustained support if you're going year to year. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. You know, [Chair Peter Conlon]: if you wanna, like, hire two people to go statewide and really make this happen, most people don't wanna have a job where your where funding is gonna get cut off after a year. Right. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. Please. I I just pulled it up just because I'm [Speaker 2 ]: a good member in it. And just so you know, past this is coming directly from theirs. Yeah. And I'll just read this quick paragraph. Past legislatures have recognized the importance of My Future Vermont as a critical source of information for both career and education seekers and those who support them. Advance Vermont received three fifty in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty four, FY twenty twenty four, and a hundred and fifty in FY twenty three. It works collaboratively with various state agencies, including the Department of Labor, Agency of Education, and HigherAbility Vermont. I just wanted you to [Annie Gianni]: Yes. Have that. There wasn't yet the previous year. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. That was twenty [Chair Peter Conlon]: twenty one. Be okay if we say we support them, you know, your three fifty? We believe that it is hard to sustain a program that has to repeatedly come in for onetime funding. However, we leave that decision up to the appropriations committee as is. [Annie Gianni]: Well, they're gonna make a decision anyway. [Speaker 6 ]: We're just being done. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Very true. Just just putting it in the sense. [Speaker 5 ]: Alright. Because [Chair Peter Conlon]: then you're [Speaker 2 ]: not Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: I'm good with that one. [Vice Chair Chris Taylor]: Just saying this is where I think it should [Chair Peter Conlon]: work. Alright. Great. K. So [Annie Gianni]: those are all the ones I had. You've mentioned something else, but maybe it's like some of the others. If they haven't actually come in to our committee, maybe it's not something we need to [Speaker 6 ]: Well, they they did come in. [Annie Gianni]: I'd rather put it on. Oh, that's right. I missed it. Yeah. That's it. Free Vermont. [Speaker 6 ]: Free Vermont. And with their one hundred and eighty two thousand ask for the child and adult care food program. It's a food program that supports small home based providers. They need [Annie Gianni]: Right. [Speaker 6 ]: A little extra money to encourage folks to be Fisket sponsors. But it's also about Is that throwing down federal money that's wrapped up in. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Right. Yeah. This is all sounds familiar, but it was about a having a fiscal sponsor. Yeah. It was was it about the money, or was it about who was gonna be Did [Annie Gianni]: you already send that to me? [Speaker 6 ]: I sent it to that. I can because I can I can tell you all what [Chair Peter Conlon]: I know? I happened to Yeah. Tell yeah. Remind us. Just the [Speaker 3 ]: the the [Speaker 6 ]: present yeah. It there was a lot of it took me a minute to sort of wrap my head around it [Annie Gianni]: as well. [Chair Peter Conlon]: They came in they came in very quick. [Speaker 6 ]: They were pretty quick. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: They're at the end, and somebody pointed out they need a fiscal agent. That's what Yes. [Speaker 6 ]: So that the this program I remember. [Speaker 3 ]: Yes. So it requires a fiscal [Speaker 6 ]: sponsoring an entity, an entity, and they're losing fiscal sponsors because the compensation that they're currently receiving doesn't match what they need to spend to actually do the job that they're meant to do. So the [Speaker 3 ]: Yes. Sorry. [Speaker 6 ]: One hundred and eighty two thousand is to sort of is to actually pay what it costs to effectively administer the program and hopefully encourage other I don't think it's very fair geographically right now. There's only three fiscal sponsors that have to cover the entire That's right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: That's right. [Speaker 6 ]: So They were It's like a bit of a a fairness issue, I think, built into there as well. So I think it was, like, Brattleboro, Rutland. I there's big chunks in the state Yes. Certain state. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. I remember that now. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. I I think I remember telling their lobbyist that this was really an issue for the agriculture I think it's security committee. [Annie Gianni]: Yep. [Speaker 6 ]: Yes. I've well, that was a question I had. I don't believe they've made this request to ag, but they have made it to us. So do we wanna we could consider it here, or should I should we relay to them that maybe it's a [Chair Peter Conlon]: I I I think I said that to somebody Okay. To their lobbyist that this wasn't really our deal. Right. They they wanted the AOE to be the fiscal sponsor. [Speaker 6 ]: Well, I think the way it works I think that's why it came to us is because the money has to be appropriated to the agency that then somehow gives it to the fiscal agents who then reimburse the actual small Oh, yeah. Providers. Oh, yeah. So it's like AOE is kinda built into that financial. [Speaker 3 ]: And yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: The money's gotta come from AOE. [Speaker 6 ]: I think I think it has to flow that flow through that. [Annie Gianni]: Flow through AOE. Sponsor. Yeah. They want that sponsor to be the [Chair Peter Conlon]: AOE. Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: I mean, [Speaker 6 ]: I think that's how it's currently operating. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Could you do a check back on the status of that? [Speaker 6 ]: I know they have not been. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Have they been to? Yeah. That's [Speaker 6 ]: Yes. Actually, I went to on their behalf. Oh, yeah. Yes. And they may have I don't know if they they probably would have been in under them yet. Maybe they have. I don't know. Okay. [Annie Gianni]: I'm not sure how to put that on the spreadsheet. I'm not seeing, like, a figure. [Speaker 6 ]: Oh, it's it's a hundred and eighty two thousand request. [Chair Peter Conlon]: She's looking for it at the dot Oh, [Annie Gianni]: did I? I I have Or the dot services [Chair Peter Conlon]: should've got that. I I don't know why that one came to us. [Speaker 6 ]: Well, I think I think just because the AOE was disposed away because AOE is involved. [Annie Gianni]: So I'm not seeing a dollar. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Would you not? Could you just talk to Amy Scholberger and ask him about status met? [Speaker 6 ]: In terms of? [Chair Peter Conlon]: But did they go to anybody else? [Speaker 6 ]: Oh, I'll clarify. I I think that it's not services, but I can get some clarification [Speaker 2 ]: on that. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We could [Speaker 6 ]: We'd replace more. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We could easily just say Oh, thank you. [Annie Gianni]: Right at the top. Hands follow-up. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I really just think, you know, we these folks presented to us. We also know they presented to you. This is a little out of our Yeah. Area of jurisdiction and respect with their position that can make [Speaker 3 ]: So I [Annie Gianni]: can add that one. [Speaker 4 ]: Okay with that? [Annie Gianni]: And did they have any money last year, though? I think it's new. [Speaker 6 ]: I think the program's been in existence because they it's like it's an ongoing program. I don't know what their accreditation was last year. I can find out. [Annie Gianni]: And maybe we don't need that much detail. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I also I also think that I think I may have asked Amy to go to the AOE and find out if they are in a certain order. [Annie Gianni]: Because do we actually turn a spreadsheet into anyone, or is it just for our thinking? [Chair Peter Conlon]: No. It's just not for our thinking. [Annie Gianni]: So we maybe I don't even need to know last year. Just know that this year, they're asking for a hundred eighty two thousand. Yeah. Yeah. For three And it it [Chair Peter Conlon]: was complicated because it was about how the money gets spread. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: It [Chair Peter Conlon]: was unclear whether there were even people willing to do work. So I can have that done. K. Good question. [Speaker 3 ]: I won't [Annie Gianni]: if I don't find it, I won't worry about it. [Speaker 6 ]: Oh, about last year's? I mean, I'm sure I could easily find out. [Annie Gianni]: Not that we need that much detail. It did [Chair Peter Conlon]: have to do with having. Yeah. [Speaker 6 ]: It was sort of like folks yeah. Folks aren't able to access the program because there are there just aren't enough administrators to go around. Alright. [Chair Peter Conlon]: If you could come back when we we discussed this on Tuesday or Wednesday with the Sure. [Speaker 6 ]: Yeah. What was last year's? [Chair Peter Conlon]: Well, also just like was we yeah. What do we like, is is approach all set? They don't need to hear from us on it or whatever. [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. Okay. So a few little details to add in, and the major one is the AOE piece. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. I hope so. Let's go back up. So the AOE I will just tell everybody that the the AOE budget, we generally like, the operations of the place, we don't generally vote yay or nay on. I don't [Annie Gianni]: have to worry about being a lot. But The new stuff. There's a four million dollar request. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I know Prox is asking good questions. We will have the opportunity on Wednesday. The last thing we need to talk about is And so think about that. I think it's fair to say that what we heard well, Rob, why don't you tell us what they heard and the folks what they presented there and the questions that were asked about? [Speaker 4 ]: Well, it was it was very interesting because, you know, they broke it down to their same three legged stool, governance, finance, and delivery, and in this four million dollar ask. And so they were incredibly general about this four million. And so, you know, the the Appropriations Committee started in on them. You know, okay. So, you know, for governance, you know, what what what sorts of things are you gonna be spending this money on? You know, after after some and words that didn't mean anything, it came back to consultants. And so they're like, okay. Consultants. So, okay, what about on the next the next thing that you're gonna spend on my consultants. And then it was consultants. And, you can never remember the name of the their chair. It's [Speaker 2 ]: Robin Shai. Robin. [Speaker 4 ]: She said, you know, I yeah. All good. I we just we're just gonna need to see some details. Like, what you know, have you budgeted out this this sort of thing? And they they they they did ask several times about and and as I think this is, like, as as a worry of our group, you know, is there capacity at the AOE to to do everything that they're taking on? And so that also came up several times. But, you know, it's this it's this four million dollar, you know, column and not a lot of detail to go with it. So [Speaker 2 ]: So I'll just remind folks that this that kind of supports me a little bit. And I I it just popped out of my head when we had Zoe and Jill in here that day on whatever whichever budget portion it was. It was in our just our committee. When I said, could I could we see a chart of staff? Oh, that's [Chair Peter Conlon]: Remember, I'd asked just you mean, that that's a that [Speaker 2 ]: they usually they have them. I just thought it'd be a printout, you know, of something that we could all see, and it then have that include the vacancies. And [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. Keep up with today as well. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. And I never saw that. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We I don't think we ever saw it. No. [Speaker 2 ]: I'm not you know? I mean, I was just throwing it out there. But at the same time, I also asked about how much we've spent on consultants Yeah. And that's never been followed. They mentioned it in our joint hearing. Jill Jill brought it up and and representative Long's request, but never really. [Speaker 4 ]: Right. She said I think yesterday, she said we were you know, I don't know if this was, like, national or within our own government here in Vermont. Like, maybe many departments have a, you know, between four and six vacancy rate. She said theirs was eight percent. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. Yep. I'm just saying. But I I I mean, I I was literally asking because in the [Speaker 2 ]: past when I've said on this committee, I've always seen both those things, what we've spent on consultants over the past year and or more. And then, you know, a a spread I can literally pull out the spreadsheet charts we used to have, and it would say bacon bacon bacon. It'll be a tree. You know? Who's where what? And I just I really thought it wasn't a big request because they [Chair Peter Conlon]: That's actually all in that booklet that we have. It does list all the vacant positions. [Speaker 6 ]: A little bit. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. I I don't Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: It doesn't put in the in the [Annie Gianni]: We're suing that guy the other day that was offering me a pay cut. [Speaker 2 ]: That's not what I want. Yeah. That's the what what I wanted to do. [Annie Gianni]: I can guarantee that. [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. [Speaker 6 ]: I I'm excited. [Speaker 2 ]: I I think we should [Annie Gianni]: not fund that. [Speaker 2 ]: Oh, you have that. I'll bring you one of [Chair Peter Conlon]: Thank you. So No. So I think, you know, this we have to we have to weigh in on this four million. Yep. Yes? Sorry. [Speaker 6 ]: And is that the only I don't wanna interrupt you. I just I'm wondering. So four million is, like, a kind of, like, a high high level ask. Like, are we gonna hear I think maybe this is just repeating what Rob said. Are we gonna hear details about what that [Chair Peter Conlon]: We happen to hear. And I think we we we can ask. And if we aren't satisfied, then we have to reflect it in our letter. [Speaker 4 ]: Jill was in a fairly sunny mood yesterday, said she would provide those details. Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. She's already working on. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 6 ]: I mean, there might [Speaker 3 ]: not be [Chair Peter Conlon]: any I guess I would say Here we go. We want an AOE whose capacity is built up one year at a time by consultants on short term contracts, or do we want an AOE if we wanna if we can spend four million dollars on the AOE, personally, I would rather hire the Salary benefits. We kept we kept you know, I I we heard testimony that said from their consultant just on Act one seventy three, you need to have a a well resourced AOE that can lean in hard for multiple years in a row. I don't think four million dollars for consultants cuts it. Agree. And so if I if we're gonna spend four million dollars, I'm not gonna object to that because I would love to see a well resourced agency of education. What do we think it needs to be on? [Annie Gianni]: Or department of education. [Chair Peter Conlon]: With the people that [Speaker 3 ]: It's a [Speaker 4 ]: it's a dumb question. But, like, if there are vacancies in in a agency like that, doesn't it but don't my brain says, well, then there must have been money budgeted for those salaries and benefits. It's gotta be sitting somewhere. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We call those vacancy savings. That's right. And yeah. They and they you know, all state agencies carry a sort of estimated amount of vacancy savings because [Speaker 3 ]: Right. [Chair Peter Conlon]: You're always gonna have vacancies. Right. So it's all it's all part of their budget. [Speaker 4 ]: Okay. Okay. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: The other [Speaker 4 ]: built in. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. The other thing that's always been very enlightening about seeing one of those charts that all set was include salary for each one as well, you know, positions. Just because Well, as we heard, they can't keep people. As we heard, when we couldn't make them fill the special ed position, the anecdotal response that I heard over and over again is all of our special ed directors in our SUs are being paid more than the person that we have there. And it it actually matters if your a a position will stay vacant if it's [Chair Peter Conlon]: not paid. [Speaker 6 ]: No. I just really strongly, agree with that sentiment, and I would absolutely value strengthening our state employee workforce at the agency. You know, paying Vermonters salaries and benefits as opposed to out of state consultants. [Chair Peter Conlon]: And and we can, you know, we can weigh in for the level that we want to weigh in. We wanna just say, if the AOE believes it needs four million dollars to have the capacity to do educational transformation, we would favor it in a form that is a long term investment in whatever it will that that it's worth about. So that's just one tactic. We can say, absolutely not gonna spend four million dollars on a bunch out of state consultants if you wanna say that. We can say, here's six million dollars. Only hire people from California. Whatever. We we can do what we want. So think about the range in between all. Okay. If you wanna respond. [Annie Gianni]: So, general, on the AOE budget, [Speaker 3 ]: any [Annie Gianni]: of those small operational differences, we don't. [Chair Peter Conlon]: We generally don't waive. Like, if they are, like It's two. And it's We need to hire two people to be Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: It's still be that oversight. Additional. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. I would say. Yeah. [Annie Gianni]: Just the significant. Yep. Bell says needs some more. [Chair Peter Conlon]: And we generally will add a commentary that we continue to be concerned about capacity at the agency of education and encourage the department to come forth with a plan to increase capacity. Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 4 ]: I mean and she said, you know, well, we're we're searching. [Speaker 2 ]: Peter, is that a standard statement that you make? Is that what you're saying? In much and okay. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I understood that you that's something you make regularly. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Should put a function key in, like, if you want. [Speaker 2 ]: Maybe we have to change this to language service or something. Name phone number. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Oh, yeah. This is Have the new members. M o to appropriations to help guide them. But we also have to talk about sort of, like, priorities. So when we come back next week, think about people's attitude about state board. I think that that's probably a little bit divisive among people because, you know, proposal from governor, it says pretty much neuter the state board. And we have a proposal here to at a minimum, give them some one time dollars to clean up what they've got first and pay them and give them money for a lawyer. Yep. That's the minimum you're saying. Yeah. That's [Speaker 5 ]: Did we say we're gonna have a a way in to to talk more about that four million dollars? Yep. I would hate to get to descriptive with it to the point where it looks like or to where we would be hampering any kind of transformation for public education in Vermont. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yep. [Speaker 5 ]: Right? I don't think that would be Eric's good very good optics [Speaker 3 ]: Yep. [Speaker 5 ]: For all of our constituents who do want some change. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I would just add to that and say we aren't we we don't have the power to control that money, but we just have the power to voice our opinion. So keep that in mind. Okay. [Speaker 2 ]: We can start it with [Chair Peter Conlon]: What's that? [Speaker 2 ]: We can start it by with the the comment by saying that we do we agree with [Chair Peter Conlon]: Because I think we all agree on that. Sufficient resources to make that happen. I mean, personally, I Yeah. [Speaker 5 ]: People on staff up to the capacity that they need to be. But I also don't wanna ban for them from getting a a consultant if they need a consultant. Yeah. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. I mean, we can we can wordsmith it in a way. I think that we can all get behind. Does anybody wanna talk about state board money right now? [Annie Gianni]: Or do [Chair Peter Conlon]: you wanna think about it over the weekend? Do you wanna make a pitch strongly one way or the other? [Speaker 2 ]: I think that's something about it. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I think that's something I don't So I guess I would ask everybody to get clear about the UVM [Annie Gianni]: Yeah. And [Chair Peter Conlon]: dollars and the and the state dollars. The state college's dollars to understand what is, like because I'm all of a sudden blanking. I'm like, I thought they were all right within the governor's recommend. But then I forgot about the tech hub and where there is matching dollars that he put in there. Right. [Speaker 2 ]: The freedom and unity. Did did I miss we that was clarified in here. That's all. [Annie Gianni]: I'm I'm gonna have to actually look at the testimony because I don't have it in my notes, and I didn't see much [Chair Peter Conlon]: of it. [Speaker 2 ]: Because that's Yeah. And I'm exempt [Chair Peter Conlon]: you know, they did not come into us with a dollar request for the for the teachers. [Annie Gianni]: Three million nine hundred thousand doll in their paperwork, if those are the three you asked. [Chair Peter Conlon]: I think that's what we gave them. [Annie Gianni]: It's in it's in their We [Chair Peter Conlon]: we did. It is it is in their request. [Annie Gianni]: Their I will say the VSAC document was so well organized. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Yeah. [Speaker 3 ]: This is [Annie Gianni]: what we got last year. Yeah. This is what we want next year. Yeah. This is what the I'm like, this is exactly the information I need. [Speaker 2 ]: I will just add [Chair Peter Conlon]: to tell folks that Commerce also does a letter. Maybe give me a letter and they are oh, they have a number attached to it, but they are using some sort of funding for the teachers for the workforce development. It'd be great to know what that Yeah. Erin is following up on. Right? [Annie Gianni]: I'd have to actually look at the testimony because it's not clear to me in the either the paper document or my notes what the intent behind the street of immunity scholarship is. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Anybody wanna stick around and keep talking for Yeah. Or would you like to go home? I like that. [Speaker 2 ]: What a way to put it, Peter. I mean, Ted would like [Chair Peter Conlon]: to extend our time together. [Speaker 2 ]: Eric, yes. Really good. We we agree we do wanna be Becky. [Annie Gianni]: It's it's like the adjournment. Yeah. Alright. [Chair Peter Conlon]: Why don't we call it there then? [Speaker 4 ]: Thank you.

Play Clip Play Full Video Pause

SmartTranscript of House Education - 2025-02-21 - 1:30 PM

This is useful for seeing what happened at the meeting without wading through the whole transcript: