SmartTranscript of House Education - 01-22-2025 - 11:20 AM

[Clover ]: And you are live. [Speaker 1 ]: Welcome back to House Education, Wednesday, January twenty second twenty twenty five. We're gonna now get a a look at the work of the State Board of Education, sort of what they're up to, but also what their role is in the world of education, especially as we move forward on debating some of the big proposals coming from the administration. And if there were some follow-up questions for some of our previous previous presentations, perhaps we can ask some of that. And, hopefully, we will also talk a fair bit about education quality standards, the role of the state board with those, sort of what they mean, and and how they are being forced to our people there. [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: Clover, it's yours. If you could introduce yourselves, then [Speaker 1 ]: go ahead with your presentation. [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: Alright. Thank you so much. Good morning, everyone. I'm Jennifer Deck Samuelson. I'm the chair of the Vermont State Board of Education, joined also by doctor Tammy Colby. [Clover ]: I'm Tammy for the record, I'm Tammy Colby. I'm the vice chair of the State Board of Education. Yeah. So [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: thank you for having us here this morning. We've been asked to provide sort of two different buckets of, review for you guys. The first is just a general overview on the state board of education. So I have a slideshow, which I believe you all have, which I can walk through with you. And then more specifically, we'll drill down on the education quality standards, which, Tammy was one of our co chairs on that, rule update committee. So she has a presentation that she can walk through. If you all have questions, you know, we can answer that. So this is, I think, the third year that I've sort of done this overview of the state board of ed, and every year I kind of fine tuned it and add in a little more detail. So hopefully, this will give you a good sense of what we're doing. So our membership is set by sixteen PSA section one sixty one. We have eleven total state board members, which is comprised of eight non student members, with priority given to the selection of persons with a demonstrated commitment to ensuring edge to ensuring quality education for Vermont students. Board members typically serve a term of six years beginning in March first unless board members step into some of the first position, and then they could, you know, then take six years on top of that. We have two student members who each serve a two year term. They are nonvoting the first year and then voting the second year, so have full board member rights as a student. And and, actually, the students that we've had have been very engaged and, really contribute to the conversations, with the things that we're considering. And then finally, the secretary of education is a nonvoting member of the board. All members are appointed by the governor with the advice and consent consent at the site. And then you have a slide that lists out all eleven board members, and I sort of broke it down so that you can see where board members are from as well as the experience or interest that they bring to the board. And I think the important thing to note there is we are pretty geographically diverse. We've got good representation of teachers, former teachers, heads of school, principals, school board members, professors, CTE heads. So we we've got pretty good diversity there. Then I just wanna pause because there there was a pretty seismic shift in the relationship with the state board event and the agency event in two thousand twelve. So prior to two thousand twelve, we were more like a traditional board. We oversaw the commissioner of education. We selected the commissioner of education. We directed the work of the education, and we directed policy and technical direction of the department, the rulemaking and developing regulations. We also supervised the commissioner. But in two thousand twelve with act ninety eight, that all changed. And so the commissioner was elevated to a secretary position that reports directly to the governor. Okay. It established the agency of education, and the state board is no longer responsible for overseeing agency policies, programs, or resources. We still do retain oversight with respect to the rulemaking process, but the agency is responsible for implementing the rules and regulations adopted by the board. So we work really hard, to have good communication with the agency as we are engaged in rulemaking so that we make sure that the rules that we are proposing are actually implementable from the agency's perspective. And it just comes to that importance of being in communication with the agency. [Clover ]: But I [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: think the other thing to take away here is that we do not direct the secretary. We don't direct the agency. The agency reports directed to the governor. And the governor actually is the one now who selects the secretary. So the state board last year was responsible for conducting the secretary search, and by statute, we proposed three candidates to the governor for his ultimate selection. [Clover ]: So the way the board [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: is now, we do sit in a rather unique position. We are independent. We are a public forum, so all of our meetings are more open to the public. We have public comment at beginning and the end of every full board meeting and at least at the beginning of every committee meeting. We really do encourage and welcome input from the public with the work that we're doing. We're a neutral body, so we act consistent with legislative intent, and we advise the general assembly when we are invited to do so. We also serve a quasi judicial role in some circumstances. This was more, relevant a couple of years ago. So there were rate appeals by therapeutic schools or tuition appeals. We are charged in statute with sitting in that quasi judicial capacity that hasn't come up for a couple of years, but it's still a possibility. We also, are in charge pursuant to sixteen BSA section two sixty one with the organization adjustment of supervisor unions and supervisor districts. And, of course, we've retained the authority to engage in rulemaking pursuant to sixteen BSA section one sixteen four seven. Seven. So how do we determine our work? Basically, there are three ways that the board can receive work. One is if something is listed in statute. So for example, sixteen VSA section one sixty four lists out, twenty one responsibilities of the the State Board of Education. Sixteen VSA section one sixty five is the statute that authorizes the education quality standards, which the board just did pretty massive rewrite of last year. We also get our responsibilities through legislative acts. So for instance, act forty six, the board was in charge of determining the mergers of different school districts. And also act one seventy three spawned a series of rulemaking by the board in order to comply with what was happening in the act. And then, of course, we have our rules. And our rules, we are able, since there are rules, to open them at any time, but I'll circle back on that. As far as executing our work by statute, we shall be supported by adequate staff to report to the board as a practical matter. We have no staff. We are deeply grateful to the agency of education, Morgan Gaitis and Suzanne Sprague from the agency, assist the board, with morning our meetings, taking our minutes, you know, really doing all of that background work to facilitate our meetings. But beyond that, we don't really have any support. So it would be nice if we had more support just because it it does leave a lot of gaps in the work we're trying to get done. Typically, we need monthly. So we meet typically on the third Wednesday of every month. We try you know, since COVID, we're doing a combination of in person meetings and hybrid meetings because we found that hybrid meetings are actually easier for the public to attend. So there is value in that, but there's also value in being in person and seeing schools. So there's no magic to that, but we typically try to meet in person about four times a year. Maybe not. And we often try to honor board members who are going off, whether student members or adult members, by going to visit their school, which has allowed the board to to see a lot of different schools throughout the state. We also hold special meetings as required for the performance of our duties, and we typically hold, you know, three or four, maybe five of those a year depending on the need. And then during Oliver Olsen's tenure as the chair of the board, he established a committee structure, which we found as really really helpful because it allows us to, you know, farm out the work so that instead of having the whole board engage in rulemaking, we have different communities set up to look at that, and then, you know, the committee comes back to the full board for a discussion you're going on. So we found that to be a pretty efficient way to get things done. For organization, by statute, we select a share biennially. We also select the vice chair at that time, and then I just went through the committee structure. So the next slide reviews, the different committees that we have. And in twenty twenty four, we had eleven monthly meetings, which took the month of July off. We had three special meetings, and we had twenty seven committee meetings. And so you can see for each of those committees how many meetings each committee had as well as who serves on those committees. And, the first one shows EQS, SPS. I was running out of space. So that was the education quality standards committee that oversaw the updates to rule series two thousand, which Tammy will be talking about momentarily. Once that work was done, the committee's work was discharged, but we took the same group of people and renamed it the student performance standards committee because pursuant to sixteen BSA one sixty four nine, the state board is also in charge of overseeing student performance standards and making sure that they dovetail with the education quality standards. So, historically, that's some things like common core. We just updated the health and physical education standards, and the committee is currently now looking at, student performance standards that have been proposed by the act one working group, with regard to ethan study standards. So in twenty twenty four, this is just a brief overview of the work that we did. We concluded our updates to dual series two thousand. So these established the standards to ensure that all Vermont students are afforded education opportunities that are substantially equal in quality and are equitable, anti racist, culturally responsive, anti discriminatory, and inclusive. And those rules will go into effect July first of this year. We also reopened, for the second time in a couple of years, rule series twenty two hundred, which governed independent school approvals. And we performed the work in a few different areas. Primarily, we applied the principles and goals of act one to independent schools and adopted the same substantive language as that that was used in Bull Series two thousand one. We also introduced a requirement that independent schools must complete and submit annual assurances of their compliance with the rules. And I did catch the tail end of Beth St. James. So as she mentioned, you know, the school is approved. The time frame ranges, but on average, you know, call it five years. What this requirement does is it says during that interviewing intervening time period, every year, the school has to submit an assurance. So that it just allows more of a checkpoint between the school and the agency and the board. So I do know that those assurances, were sent out by the agency, I believe, last week, and we should I I expect the agency will be getting the the assurances back. The updates to rule series twenty two hundred also provided a comprehensive framework of the requirements that accrediting agencies must meet in order to be recognized by the board. So there are accrediting agencies such as MEASK and AISMI that accredit schools. And it used to be there was rule seventy three twenty that listed those agencies by name, And what the board found is that the list was really outdated and, of course, to engage in rulemaking is at least an eight month process. We decided what was probably a better way to go about it instead of listing by name is to create a framework. So that's now embedded in rule series twenty two hundred, and then we have a list on our website that lists the accrediting agencies. So it just it it's, I think, a better way to set up that framework, but it also allows us to be more nimble in terms of putting organizations on the list or off the list. We also require a method by which the agency will evaluate whether a school is compliant with our nondiscrimination requirements, and we clarify the process by which accredited and non accredited schools may apply for and receive approval or reapproval. And just as a reminder, there are no approvals at this point because there's a moratorium on approval of any new independent schools. So we're just, at this point, looking at reapprovedness. So those rules went into effect on July first of last year, with the exception of instructional strategies and curriculum content, which were going to effect July first of this year. [Clover ]: And then [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: the third, you know, major bucket of work that the board completed last year was, we approved two post secondary schools. And, again, we went through the process, and there are three accrediting agencies that have now been recognized by the board. So current issues patient facing the state board met, one, insufficient resources to meet workflow demands. So in f y twenty four, our total budget for, you know, all board members, travel, advertising, recording costs, total budget is seventy thousand seven hundred eight dollars, and we have been level funded since f y twenty one. Prior to that, it was significantly more. So it got cut pretty significantly in twenty twenty one. It has not been increased since then. Board members earn six dollars and twenty five cents an hour or fifty dollars a meeting. You can imagine that's not very much money. And, of course, we have no dedicated legal support. And I I guess the the the important thing here is that if we just kind of continue, you know, back burner in our work, we have enough money to make it through this fiscal year and going forward. If we wanna do any substantive work, such as rulemaking or, you know, continuing with, looking at the performance standards that have been given to us by the Akron Working Group, we would like to hire a consultant. We don't have any money in our budget to do that. So we're a little bit stuck at the moment where we have work that we can identify needs to be done that we would like to do, but I think we have about thirty five thousand dollars left in our budget to make it through the rest of the fiscal year. So without additional money, we can't really get the work done that we would like to get done. So we don't have funds to hire a consultant. We don't have funds to hire an attorney to assist us with updates to our rules, including, the career and technical education rules, which, really are the final step. You know, we we we updated the education quality standards. We updated the independent school approval rules. This is sort of the last leg of that that tripod. We don't have funds to hire an attorney to help us do that. So and we don't have funds to fully discharge our statutory obligations. So requests that we might make of the legislative the general assembly is we feel it would be really beneficial to the board to have dedicated legal counsel. Currently, if we need an attorney, we have to put a contract out to bid. We have to go through that process. From the time we articulate a need for legal services until the time we actually have someone who's able to help us is about three months, which leaves us stranded. And that attorney is only able to assist us for work that falls within the scope of that contract. So we have another question that comes up. We don't have an attorney, and we thought it would be really helpful to have an attorney on retainer. We estimate that cost would be about thirty six thousand dollars a year so that when questions come up, it's literally we can pick up the phone, send an email, and be able to have that level of support. We would also love to see increased compensation for board members. I say this. I'm not sure it's gonna happen in my tenure on the board, but I do point out that this is good work that we're doing, and we think it's important to have differences of perspectives and life experiences. It is hard to be able to be fully engaged with this work on the modest stipend the board members get. So I just point that out because I think it would be really important to be able to make this something that would be that would enable more people to engage in this kind of work because I think there's real interest out there. We would love to have a one time line adjustment to our current f y twenty five budget to allow us to spend up to forty thousand dollars for a consultant to assist us in reviewing the book of ethnic social I'm sorry, ethnic study standards that have been proposed by the ACKLYN working group. And we would also request twenty five thousand dollars to retain legal counsel to assist with updates to our rule series twenty three seventy within the career and tech rules. So that would be in addition to the cabinet council on retainer. And then looking to f y twenty six and beyond, we would love to have additional funding that would allow us to update our rules. Many of our rules have not been updated in almost thirty years. Anytime you look at state board rule of references to the commissioner, we know it's at least thirteen years old. Those rules are in desperate need of being updated, but, again, we don't have the funds or the support that would allow us to do that. And, of course, we would like additional funding to meet the other obligations that have been set for the statute, and that really raises a larger question. You know, I I realized that the the educational landscape is sort of shifting on almost every front, and the state board is a part of that. And so I think to you, I would ask, you know, what do you see as the state board's role going forward, and what can we do to assist that conversation? [Speaker 1 ]: Thank you. I would say that that is a a question that we assigned to the Commission on Future of Public Education in Vermont. So, yeah, I'm not sure. We just sort of wanna get ahead of that, but a valuable question. Just very quickly, what I'm interpreting here is a actually a budget adjustment act for sixty five thousand dollars, forty for somebody to help with the act one review, [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: and twenty five to help with new CTE rules or updated CTE rules. And just to clarify that, yes, you are correct. And to that, I would add, if we were to have a council on retainer estimated at thirty six thousand dollars a year, I think the fair response would be to tack on eighteen thousand dollars in this fiscal year or, you know, half of that annual amount and then, you know, roll it to future years going forward. And then the twenty five thousand dollars for CTE, the attorney that we had, assisting us with the updates to EQS and twenty two hundred, it was about, you know, fifty, fifty five thousand dollars, to update each rule series. So we could fairly estimate that it would cost about fifty thousand dollars for CTE, but, again, we're halfway through the the fiscal year. So twenty five thousand this year, twenty five thousand next year to finish the report. [Clover ]: And what additional for increased compensation for board members, ballpark? Let's throw it in. [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: I mean, I I I'm not trying to hedge on that one. I'm not sure. I mean, I I I feel like other boards, other state boards are either getting the same amount that we're getting or I know that there are other boards where members are getting, you know, five and six figures [Speaker 1 ]: a year for the work that we're doing. [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: I would say this is not a full time job. Sometimes it feels like a full time job. But I think we spend a lot of time working on these issues. And, you know, late nights, weekends, holidays, it's, you know, I I have a job in my real life, and I often find that this work comes first because I'm constrained by statutory demos. So then that ends up, you know, shifting the other work that I thought I was gonna be doing to later in the day because this work needs to happen first. I don't have an answer for you, honestly. I would I would love to say something that is on par with other boards that are doing similar work, and I just I don't have that information. So I feel like I can raise the issue, and it's not compelling if I don't have a number. I mean, I can make up a number, but I I would rather have a real number. [Speaker 1 ]: I just actually think that board compensation variables should be something we can put our hands on pretty quickly from the from the school office and how they are. But thank [Clover ]: you. Sorry. I don't think you recognize me, and I just asked my question. That's okay. [Speaker 1 ]: So that's it for for part one? [Clover ]: Yes. [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: Unless you have any other questions. Thank you very much. [Clover ]: Thank you. [Speaker 1 ]: Any further questions? Obviously, for the topic of the state board and and all that, I assume will be kind of part of the bigger debate that we're gonna have to get any of what the government proposes. Thank you. [Clover ]: Good morning, everyone. We're gonna shift here to the education following standards. Would you as, sure Samuelson mentioned, this was a significant body of book the past few years for the state board of education. And just to sort of put this work in context, the education quality standards establish the standards for the schools that all public schools need to meet to ensure that Vermont students have educated equal substantially for educational opportunities. So if you think about it, the EQS are those core rules and regulations that talk to schools and districts around the state about how they do their work on a day to day basis. And it's the regulatory framework that is intended to ensure that we have substantially equal education law to this across all public space. There's a separate set of rules that apply to independent schools. So I'm gonna be talking about the EQS, which applies to public schools with a few exceptions of independent schools that opt in to EQS. And there's a handful of schools. I just mentioned, I think if that came up in that exchange to attend representative Collins. So there are a handful of independent schools that opt in to the US, but the majority of our independent schools fall under our independent school years. But it means that this candidate rules is really important. Right? That this is what school principals and school boards lean back on and use to guide their work. It talks to them about curriculum requirements. It talks to them about staffing. It talks to them about the kinds of reporting that they have to do. And so this set of rules was last updated in twenty fourteen. So it's been quite some time since we updated it up, and it's important that you queue us reflect what's currently in statute. Right? And so the impetus for updating the rules this contract and the changes in statute that came with act one of twenty nineteen. And out of act one, was created the act one working group, and they were charged with providing recommendations back to the state board for how the EQS needed to be modified to comply with act one. And so that was our starting point for this work. And the changes as a result of act one. Right? What did act one in itself ask us? Act one requires the education quality standards to be established in a way that would increase cultural competency of students in grades p k twelve, increase the attention to history contribution perspectives at ethnic and social groups, promote critical thinking regarding the history contributions perspectives of ethnic and social groups, commit to supervise reunions to eradicate racial bias in their curricula, provide across their curricula content and methods to enable students to safely support questions and identity based on quality and racism, and six, ensure that the basic curriculum and extracurricular programs of all supervised reunions are welcoming to all students and account for parental concerns of our religion or culture. So that was the starting point. That's what f one put on the table and said that EQS now needed to attend to. So when those recommendations came to the came to the state board, we said, well, we're opening up these rules. These rules haven't been updated since twenty fourteen. We also need to take into account the broader set of considerations. Again, policy changes, input on implementability of the rules as they have been, right, and other kinds of concerns raised by the legislature and constituents across the students across the state. So the XB, approved further modifications to revisions proposed by the acting on working group to ensure that EQS was consistent with current statute, whether and that we took into account the extent to which EQS was understandable and able to be implemented in the field that included both the recommendations that came from the Ag Home Working Group as well as provisions that were in the EQS already where the field was struggling and potentially needed clarification. Technical changes recommended by the agency of education and the field to bring the document current with policy and practice. A lot has changed through one fourteen in education. Four, to bring the EQS in alignment with the new EcoPost district quality standards. And the district quality standards, just to remind us all, those were put into, in were part of act one twenty seven, and the agency of education was asked to create those rules and regulations. That's the only set of rules currently that the agency has oversight over and are not looking to state board. And so we have two sets of rules, one by the agency, the district policy, and then we need the education policy standards. And we need to make sure that these two things work together. Right? Because if they are working together, that creates a lot of friction and challenges for our practitioners in the field. And then as I'll show you in a moment, we took a lot of input in the field and the public about the rules impact on educational programs and practices and, again, with an eye toward implementability and consistency of statute. So we had both the act one body of work that came to us, and then we had all of these other things that we considered. So what you can see on this slide is the process. It was a two year process. This is a much longer process than you told. I wanna acknowledge that, and now that's gonna sort of comment that is sort of come back with Safeway, but this took a long time. Let me talk about why that is. It took a it took two years because, one, this is probably the most impactful set of regulations that we have for public schools in law, and we need to get them right. And the kinds of recommendations that are coming in from the academic field are extremely important, but they're new. Right? These are this is new terrain, not just in Vermont, but nationally, and we need to be very thoughtful about that. And we are very thankful to the Agonal Working Group for their record for the recommendations and partnerships in this work. We also have a rule series that had been updated in a long time, and there was a lot of things to open. And so starting in April twenty twenty two, we received the recommendations of the AppOne working group. And between April twenty twenty two and twenty maybe twenty twenty three, the EQS committee met twenty eight times. And in each one of those meetings, we took we had individuals or groups come testify before us. Some of those meetings were working meetings, but we always had public comment at the beginning and end. And out of that, we took a hard look at the definitions sort of around curriculum instruction, technical changes, application to independent schools, alignment with district quality standards, and we have a legal review. Out of that event, we made recommendations back to the board, and the board in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty three, created, voted unanimously to approval. I CAR finally, it was filed by I CAR. So all that work happened before we actually started the formal rulemaking process. And I think that's also really important because oftentimes, those of you who know me will hear hear me say, stick with the public and public education. Right? That entire process over that entire years was about public engagement, right, and really thinking and taking that work, taking those comments and taking that feedback in so that when when we started the ICAR, when we started the formal rulemaking process with ICAR, we were already in a position where we had done substantial work and engaged with the public around these set of goals. After ICAR, we had three public hearings with hundred and eighty attendees in total, and we took in over a hundred written comments. From that, we got another series of fourteen meetings where we processed all the comments, made additional updates to the rule, including two meetings where we met with the companion committee that was working on the twenty two hundred series. Because one of the things state board decided is that we wanted to make sure to the extent possible that the same education of all these standards that we've we've put some public schools were also there on our independent school rules. On the current statute, we are not able to have one unified set rules for both public and independent schools to the extent possible. We wanted to make sure that the same equal educational opportunities that are available to student health schools, their their teachers and their schools. The state board unanimously approved the rule in April twenty twenty four, and LCAR unanimously approved the rule in June of twenty twenty four. The rule goes into effect in all post twenty twenty five. So it took a little bit of time, but what I will say is that rule now is the foundation It's the starting point in many ways for what we'll do with CTE rules. It was the foundation for how the twenty two hundred rule were updated. And so getting that work, it is really important. And now we're able to because we've done that work, to able to update these other rule series. But I think we've created a framework now that will allow State Board to more easily update that rule for changes in statute. I wanna just acknowledge that there's a lot of meetings, a lot of work. And I just wanna acknowledge the people on this committee [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: who did this work. [Clover ]: It was cochair Joaquin Boyson, who I know some of you now, former cochair at Essex. Mohammed Diya, who is an educator at HENUSY. Greg Barron, who is one of our student members from Vergennes, Torch Warner from. And we had this the committee went on for a while. So we had former members, Patrick Brownington, Tom Levitt, from St. Johnsbury, and Gavin Lucci, who is also a student. So as Sherif Samuel said mentioned, we're not exactly done with this. We keep asking them. But one of the things that the state board that's, state board is required to do in addition to rulemaking is we also have to consider and approve Yes. Things from the state. Right? And so what and those are the two our authority, whatever, are two different sections of statute. The standards are things like common core, national next generation science standards, health and peace standards. So we just created this EQS that includes so this framework for thinking about social equity. Right? Well, we have no standards for that. And so we need standards, and standards being those things that we measure the extent to which students can know or can do something. In Vermont, we don't we, the state board, or the agency, don't prescribe curriculum, but we prescribe standards to which, right, all students should aspire. And so we don't have social equity standards right now. The ACORN working group provided to us this initial framework called the IRIS framework, Vermont State African Studies framework. That framework has recommendations for standards as well as other kinds of recommendations around curriculum instruction. Currently, at in June of twenty twenty three, they provided that to us. It was a little difficult for us to start evaluating considering that because we had to finish the EQS. Right? We need to make sure these things line up. So immediately following when the EQS was approved in June, we started the process of considering those recommended standards, and we began that process in the fall, and we are currently in this in our, standards committee working through that process. And I'm honored. It's gonna be really important that we sort out those standards prior to July first If that's maybe she wants to send it to me. So the work is still pushing. We've moved on to the. And in your handouts, in case you need it handy, we found is a link to the unadoptable two thousand national language to the virus framework that was shared with us. Yeah. You take questions? [Speaker 1 ]: Just back to a little [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: bit of financial part. Yeah. [Speaker 1 ]: There was a lot of committee meetings. [Clover ]: There was a lot of committees. [Speaker 1 ]: Are those compensated at the same rate as the stand as state board meetings? Yes. Okay. [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: So I think one of the [Speaker 1 ]: big questions that I always have and that I think there's a lot of is so we've got this. We've got EQS. We've got the standards. How do we assure that that schools are meeting those standards, are using those standards appropriately? Yeah. And that and that may not be a state works possibility. Probably isn't. [Clover ]: Under under the current config government's configuration. Right? And that had that came about after twenty twelve. Right? The agency of education is responsible for overseeing implementation of rules. We do not oversee the agency, and so our role right now is to create the rules, approve the standards, and then the agency's responsibility is to both support implementation, right, in the ways that it can, but also is responsible for accountability and monitoring with respect to implementation. Where there is gray areas is who then is supervising the agency with respect to ensuring that they are in sort of doing their job with respect to implementations, and that is sort of a that's a question mark. Right? And I know that question has come up. [Speaker 1 ]: I might harp you back to the test one we had right before you came and just ask, given sort of all of the legal maneuverings and and all of that, where do we stand on independent school approval process for those schools who have submitted their renewal application but have put the asterisk next to the anti discrimination portion, are they continuing to receive public dollars? Why? [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: Just where does that stand? So I think I'm I'm trying to remember because this goes back to the February twenty twenty three state board meeting, so a couple years ago. There were, I believe, three schools that submitted forms with an asterisk. Two of them dropped out and elected to be recognized and to not seek double tuition dollars. The third school is subject to a lawsuit, so I probably, you know, won't say any more than that. But what I will say is, With the assurance form that the agency has developed that was sent out again, I believe it was last week sent out to all independent schools. And there's a checkbox, you know, are you approved, but not eligible to receive tuition or you approved and eligible to receive tuition or you with their approved school and depending on your answer, if there is a series of assurances school is asked to check off. The agency will then be receiving that information and then based on the agency's, you know, preparation of the report, it will then come before our twenty two hundred approvals committee for their consideration and then ultimately before the full board. So where we are right now, we have not done any reapprovals of independent schools for more than a year. We've we've sort of been in a holding pattern as schools and the agency are sort of getting up to speed on these updates to locals. What I've heard from the agency is beginning in spring, we're gonna start those floodgates will open, and the state board is going to be receiving a lot of request for reapproval. But the process is the agency, you know, sort of collects that information and then gives it to the board. So at this point, I don't have the answer for you, but I I do think that information will be coming within the next few months. [Speaker 1 ]: And is that reapproval on the five year cycle that's coming, or is that all everybody Well, it depends on the school. [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: So if if you're in kindergarten, I believe the approval period can only be two years. I know that in years past, we've had schools up for reapproval that we have only approved for a year, and then we've asked them to come back before the board because there was something in the application with the board. Just wanted to make sure that, you know, the the issue that we saw was going to be, you know, rectified within a year. And so then so we had a an approval for a one year period or a two year period, but the general rule is a five year period. [Clover ]: And just to clarify, I think your your question, others on the ground, is there was no reset here where everybody had to start restart reapproval. We will be taking in reapprovals as they come up in whatever time time bound cycle, which varies Right. As they come up in that cycle. So with the change in rule, there was no reset that said, okay. Everyone now has to go back through the reapproval process under the rules. What's going to happen is is that as they come up against their clock, right, and they come to seek reapproval, then they will be evaluated against the new rules formally. [Speaker 1 ]: You talked about going into the CTE rules. They've not been updated in a decade or so. Mhmm. If we get a proposal and we started talking about it very seriously here about sort of a change in governance and funding for CTEs as opposed to content, how might that affect your needs and updating Citi's rules? [Clover ]: I think that's a good question. So the process that we have right now that we're gonna be engaging is is that the agency of education is going to take a first pass making technical recommendations to us with regard to substance. We're expecting those technical recommendations sometime this spring. So I given sort of how this process works and that we I again, we wanna be engaging the public and representatives from the CTE constituencies. I think we would be in a position to start the technical review on that. If in fact then there were additional governance changes, we certainly would need to consider those and the implications for goals. [Speaker 1 ]: That's helpful to know just from our own sort of planning purposes that it sort of originates in the A. We supposed to use [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: It is I know there were [Clover ]: But that's that's the agreed upon process for CTE. And this is the first time [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: that that's happened. Yeah. So we had this conversation with the agency, probably on the screen, and thought that that would really make sense so the agency really can put a first pass on it before we take the rule and then have the formal rule entry process. [Clover ]: And as you might remember, that's a shift from what the agency requested last session before you, which was for the agency to take ownership of the rule. And I think our position on that was that it is really important that the EQS, independent schools, and CTE rules all be with the same body. Right? Those three rules need to stay hand in glove. It should never be the case that a child crosses the hallway in a school from a public school setting to a CTE setting, for example, and have different sets of rules or have these rules not work together. And so our recommendation was that those three rules must stay together. And you can already see, for example, how the state board has been very careful to make sure that our EQS and the twenty two hundred rules near one another to the extent possible by statute. It will be our intent to do that under CTE. And so after that discussion and more things, we ended the general assembly. We had a conversation with the agency. We very much value the agency's input and want their technical expertise on this given where the rules were housed right now. So the agreement that we reached with them is that they would take the first pass to provide that technical information, and then we would engage in our rulemaking process that looks very similar to what we did on EQS, which would be a thoroughly publicly engaged process prior to filing ICAR. Right? And then taking it through ICAR process. [Speaker 1 ]: So I think that was also one of the compelling reasons that we did not go along with the agency's request because the state board process is so much more public. [Speaker 3 ]: Yeah. Well, similar question to yours, but a different part of in the new I'm getting on my number. During twenty two hundred, in the new rules for food independence post trustee public tuition, you asked about where we are for the implementation of the nondiscrimination clause. There are also changes to special education, I think, in what's required for providing special education. And so I'm one so those would go into effect July one twenty twenty five or those already are in effect. They are already in the question into, like, an implementation. Do we know if that is being implemented? So that requirement already went into effect. And if you [Jennifer Deck Samuelson ]: think about, you know, in my mind, I'm sort of analogizing, like, a tax form and, like, what's above the line, what's below the line. So to be approved and so approved means you you meet all of the standards set forth in rule series twenty two hundred. To be approved, you need to comply with the nondiscrimination requirements. To be approved to and and eligible to receive public tuition, that's kind of below the line, if you will. So to be approved, you've gotta meet the nondiscrimination requirements regardless of whether or not you receive public tuition. To also be eligible to receive public tuition, you need to comply with special ed laws. That went into effect July first of twenty twenty four, and the assurance form that the agency has now sent out to all independent schools were capturing that information. [Clover ]: And, representative, you speak forward to review that insurance form several times once in the spring. Once again in the fall, we'll provide us some very specific feedback on that form to ensure that that form was consistent with the rule and also that rule. So my understanding is that the form is that they would reflect state board input, but that was an instance where the state board had some very specific feedback on how the the agency was going to implement the rule. [Speaker 3 ]: Probably there's a little bit of follow-up question and probably the thing for us to be asking agencies. So the sort of accountability or check back of are we meeting EQS? Are we meeting the rule twenty two hundred? So if we're approved independent schools is pretty lengthy attestation form for public schools and EQS. What is that again, this may be the question we are asking, and maybe it's a question for the AOE or even in the field. Are they attest similar attestation forms? Is it a review process? Is it a how is that, you know, process? [Clover ]: The district quality standards. There are there are ways, right, that the agency there's a framework for the district that need that they need to provide evidence that they are doing certain kinds of things around operations, financial facilities. Right? Mhmm. There's a reference in the DQS. It goes back to in the DQS, it goes back to the EQS with respect to very specific things in there that that are points of monitoring and accountability for districts with respect to aspects of the EQS. In the DQS, those things that are listed are just listed as sections of the AQS and which and the agency is responsible for developing a specific guidance that districts must follow to meet or be accountable for these things. That guidance is yet to be promulgated. Once that guidance is promulgated, then, the agency will be responsible as a part which is for quality process to be making sure that those specific aspects of EQS, which is a very specific list, is not the full list. In the EQS, districts also have responsibilities with respect to reporting, right, information. And one of the thing one of the ways in which I think we strengthen EQS, is with respect to the types of data and information that they are now required to put in. Your annual plans are available to public, including disaggregated data around, that help us understand patterns of equity and inequity in the district with respect to district characteristics. [Speaker 3 ]: And those are some new requirements that you shared? [Clover ]: There are some new requirements with respect to reporting, and some of and those reporting requirements are not exclusive to students who attend the physical attend the district. There are they include students who program the district is responsible, and that includes students who attend independent schools with, for our placement, which is. So to your question, right, there are some frameworks set up here. Right? But, again, so the accountability monitoring work is on the agency's shoulders. [Speaker 1 ]: Thank you. We'll we'll wait for lunch now. We're on a tight deadline in terms of the Budget Adjustment Act. Some of what you have appreciate you have provided, we may be unsuccessful in working with them. Just highly recommend that you then that you follow-up with the for our colleagues at their side of the building. [Clover ]: We can prepare something for employee who gets that. [Speaker 1 ]: Definitely. We can.

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