SmartTranscript of House Corrections&Institutions 2025-01-15 9:10 AM

[Chair ]: Folks, this is House Corrections and Institutions. It is Wednesday, January fifteenth. We're running a little a little late this morning, so we had some logistics to take care of. We have with us this morning Damien Leonard, who was our legal counsel last year. Damien worked with putting the language together for our bill last year, which is h eight eight two. And the act number, I don't know what the act number is. One speaking [Damien Leonard ]: One sixty two. [Chair ]: One sixty two. Yep. And then we went through our spreadsheet last week with Scott Moore from Joint Fiscals. So Scott puts together this document from Joint Fiscals. But the language in our bill that becomes law has to track the spreadsheet and vice versa. So these are the words to explain the changes, just the changes that we did. And on the spreadsheet, it would be it would be column probably column h, I, and j. So wherever there was a change from the previous year of act mark of act sixty nine, wherever there was a change in the dollar amount there would be reflected in language here. I know that's confusing. Don't wait for new folks. But bear with us. You'll get it. So, Damien, it's all yours. [Damien Leonard ]: Thank you. So for the record, I'm Damien Leonard from the office of legislative council, and I did have the great pleasure of working on this bill last year, and I'm not kidding. [Chair ]: Hey, Matt. Last minute. [Damien Leonard ]: It's I did enjoy this bill. It's a wonderful committee to work on work in, and it's I think you guys are really lucky because you guys get to actually work on things that people can see, which are tangible, and you keep the state building standing and in good repair. You make sure that we have good facilities. This is great. Some of the other work we do in this building, it's important. Don't get me wrong, but people don't see it. So you're very lucky you get to work on things that are very tangible. And for me personally, I love to work on tangible things that I can see and point to. So, anyway, bringing you to the bill. I think you've got last year's bill in front of you as passed by house and senate. It was act one sixty two. I also sent Phil a copy of the ant summary, which is a nice cheat sheet. Lets you know in sort of bullet form fashion or bullet point fashion of, exactly what adjustments we made, and what pieces were in there. So if you need a cheat sheet, really five sheets, but five page, summary of what the bill did, it it is there. So if you look at section one of last year's bill, that's the legislative intent section. It's amending section one of the biannual bill. So capital bill is a two year program. So in the first year of biannium, you enact it. In the second year, you adjust it. So you'll see that what happened in the second year is that you made some adjustments, upward on the amount of authorized spending and downward on the amount that was authorized for the first year, which essentially allowed you to move that money to the second year of the biennium. So what happens sometimes is projects run behind, they run under budget, priorities change, other things like that. And so that's why you need the second year to adjust things. Questions on the intent? [Chair ]: Nope. We're good. [Damien Leonard ]: K. So then we get into the appropriations. And one of the things you're gonna see here, for those of you who are new to the building, is you're gonna see a lot of these sort of three stars. We call them ellipses. They're that's essentially language from the first year bill that did not change. So instead of putting in forty pages of language here, we've just put in the ellipses to omit anything that's not changing, and that brings us right to what is changing. So, the first section is state buildings. These are appropriations or or funding authorizations. I should say the appropriations are in the big bill. This authorizes the money that's appropriated in the big bill and specifies what it can be spent on. So the big bill will say you've got this big chunk of fifty six million dollars, that can be spent, and this bill will say you're gonna spend two million here, three million here, five hundred thousand here. So as you look through, you'll see that some things were struck. So, for example, we have a replacement of historic finishes in the state house for fifty thousand dollars was struck. That money was then used elsewhere in the bill. [Chair ]: When you see a line through if you go to page two, and it's section two, number seven. If you see a line line structure language And legislation, that means that language is no longer existent. [Speaker 2 ]: Right. [Chair ]: So you're gonna see that a lot in bills that come out of committees. And on your house calendar, when they come out, they'll have the amendments. They'll have the language. If you've seen lines through language, that means that that is current law that is no longer going to be there. [Damien Leonard ]: So the strikethrough, that's language we're repealing, so it's gonna be gone. Underline is language we're adding. And sometimes what you'll see so if you go to page two, subdivision four, the Middlesex Therapeutic Community Residence, you'll see that we struck through four hundred thousand dollars and we added in fifty thousand dollars. We're just adjusting there. Get rid of the old language, add the new language, and then the law changes once this takes effect. So you'll see that throughout. I won't go through each line item because we'd be here for the whole hour just doing the line items. But you'll see throughout, we've adjusted spending. And you will see sometimes, if you look up at subdivision one in that same section on page two, statewide major maintenance went from eight and a half million to eight million five hundred and one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine dollars. When you see something funny like that, that is usually, Scott figuring out that we have a leftover balance and then the committee deciding where to put that leftover balance. In this case, major maintenance is sort of a general all purpose fund. So dropping the extra nineteen hundred ninety nine dollars in there has, no negative impact and only make sure that you've got a little extra money for that generalized maintenance. [Chair ]: You never wanna leave money on the bottom line in this building. It will get sucked up somewhere. Yeah. You'd never wanna leave money on the bottom line. It's a lot of other interests out in the hallways. [Damien Leonard ]: And then at the bottom of that page, you'll see that there were new subdivisions added, so we're not just adjusting spending. There are new projects that came up, that weren't on the radar in the first year of the biennium. Or if they were, they were seen as being further down the road, and this moved them up and put them into the the second year of the capital program. [Chair ]: So that's the top of page three. [Damien Leonard ]: Yep. I'm sorry. My my paging is different than than your as passed both. So [Chair ]: Page three of the bill. So we added art and state buildings. We've always funded that program, but it wasn't funded the previous year. So we added them. There was some additional work for well, the roof replacement. This is where it gets confusing. For northwest, that's the Saint Albans. We added that. And then we wanted to do more evaluation of our property, the old Windsor Correctional Facility, and we added that. So those three things [Speaker 2 ]: So that's page two. [Chair ]: Mhmm. [Speaker 2 ]: For us, that's on page two. [Chair ]: Oh, it's on page two? Yeah. I have page three. [Speaker 2 ]: I have to [Chair ]: have a different you know what? Mine is Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: You got the other one. [Chair ]: Mine is from when we actually passed. Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: You got the original. [Chair ]: The final version that we did it. It's the same thing. So what you see underlined was not in the governor's budget, and that's what we added basically. Alright. I know it's confusing. We'll figure it out. Trust me. [Damien Leonard ]: Okay. So section three of that, Phil, you'll see we amended the human services section. So human services, includes a lot of things, including correctional facilities, so that's an important thing to keep in mind. You'll see here, the work that was done here was primarily correct related to correctional facilities, and then there was the River Valley therapeutic residence, was also added in there. So that's an important thing to keep in mind. There you'll see both human services appropriations that include corrections, and then you're also going to see when we get to the policy section that there's a separate correction section. So that can be a little confusing, but the way to think about it is the appropriations go to the agency. So corrections is under the agency of human services. The policy, we tend to call out more based on the generalized policy area. Questions? K. And feel free to just jump in, if there's something I'm saying that doesn't make sense, or if you have a question about something you see on the page that I just have skipped right over. Section four was commerce and community development. The changes here were just number changes. And then you'll notice in section five, we skipped up to section nine of the biannual bill. So there's four other sections in the middle, like five other sections that just had no adjustments. And that's that's one of the funny things with the budget adjustment bill. You don't change everything, and so it becomes a much shorter bill than the first year bill. So this year, like the chair was mentioning, your work is gonna be cut out for you because you're building the big program. The second year, you're more make you're making adjustments and fine tuning. So, section nine with natural resources, you'll see that there were adjustments to things like dam safety, and there were also adjustments made to general infrastructure projects in f y twenty five to include improvements to buildings such as conservation camps. And so, again, this is where policy adjustments are made. Sometimes money that was under one appropriation gets bundled into another one. And sometimes there are adjustments made because money wasn't spent or money is being put in. Like, with damn safety, money is being put in somewhere else that's not in this bill, so you can draw it down in this bill to use it for a different purpose. One of the confusing things, I think, to folks who are not in this building, and even after you've been here, is there are all these different buckets of money. And a lot of what we do is juggle which bucket we're pulling money from because some of the funds will get things like a federal match or you'll be able to use a federal grant program or something like that. And so you can draw down different funds and then repurpose the money. So a lot of what we're doing is stretching, your constituents dollar as far as it will go. So the tax dollars they pay, we want them to be spent well, and spent efficiently. We don't wanna waste them and leave money on the table that we could have gotten from a federal grant or something like that. And one of the big things to remember is that for each dollar in federal taxes we pay, we get a lot more back. We're one of the states that benefits from the way the federal grant programs are. And so being able to draw down those federal dollars and those federal grants and then repurpose money is always something that we're trying to do in this building because it helps us stretch our very small state budget as far as it will go. What why is it different than So Leahy. Yeah. We were lucky to have [Chair ]: Leahy. [Damien Leonard ]: Long term senators like Patrick Leahy who got control over the funding formulas, and designed them so that small states tend to benefit disproportionately. Yeah. It's as a small state, we benefit from the federal system where each state gets two senators regardless of size. So we have disproportionate influence for a state that has a population roughly the size of Boston. So we're we're one of the smallest states population wise, but as a small state and other states like Wyoming have similar benefits where they have a small population, but per capita, they bring down more federal dollars than they pay out. [Speaker 2 ]: It's called a small statement. [Chair ]: Yeah. And a lot of those federal dollars, even though they're we match it by state dollars, it comes into the state coffers, but a lot of those dollars then get distributed back to our local towns. Yep. Could be for paving, could be for culverts, could be for bridges, could be for water and sewer projects, could be for drinking water projects. So if we don't put the state money on the table to draw down those federal dollars at the maximum that we can, then we don't have the money doesn't go to our towns. So then our towns still have the needs, so then it's gonna put pressure on your local property tax because the towns will have to then pony up the money. So that's how it works. So you can say, cut the state budget, don't do the taxes here, don't do the fees here, say that. In some cases, that's fine. In other cases, you're leaving federal dollars on the table, which then means you're putting pressure on your local municipalities, not so much the state, but local municipalities. Because a lot of that money passes through the state. And we see that in the capital bill with, when you go when you go to page six, seven. I'm gonna I'm gonna look on you. Page seven. [Damien Leonard ]: Clean water? Or Yeah. [Chair ]: The clean water. It's I [Damien Leonard ]: think that's on six of their copy. [Chair ]: Yeah. It's on six of mine. If you go to section ten [Damien Leonard ]: Yeah. It's on line five. [Chair ]: And oh, good. You got the line. So I don't have the line. Check clean water, EPA revolving loan fund match for water pollution control fund. We put in one point six. So for every dollar we put in, we get five dollars back. So five to one ratio, one to five ratio, however you wanna do it. And then those dollars go to our local towns for people for sewer projects, CSO projects, drinking well, not drinking water on that one for our sewer plants. And if we don't match what's available in federal dollars, then money's not there for our towns. And that's the same for, the drinking water. That's that was in the other bill. So that's not in this one. So that's where we have to be really cognizant when we look at our dollars. It may be a big chunk of money at one time from the state, but you gotta see what it's drawing down on the federal law. And we'll get all of that when we go through testimony. This is very complicated and boring. [Speaker 2 ]: It's fascinating. [Chair ]: Well, even in the morning, not doing it in the afternoon. Oh, nice. [Damien Leonard ]: Kind of like a giant puzzle trying to trying to figure out where everything you can get and, you know, you know, policy disagreements aside on how to fund things or how to do that. The drawing down federal dollars, it's something we don't have control over the federal tax rate here, but we do have control over how much money we can pull back to the extent, you know, that we can max that out. So then it it becomes sort of a puzzle of trying to figure out how to fit all of your priorities in around that and still get that money or or, you know, make the calculated decision to leave some of it on the table if it's a program, that you don't wanna take advantage of or you don't want the federal strings that are attached. Because sometimes they come with some really onerous strings that makes the programs, you know, makes the money and what's not worth it. But that's that's all the fine detail that that comes out. Things like these water pollution or the the revolving loan fund match for the water pollution control fund. That stuff that we've seen our communities really taking advantage of in recent years. So moving on, you'll see section seven added a brand new section for the Department of Labor. So this this is something that wasn't in the first year bill at all. This was an HVAC upgrade for the DOL building. If you can look back at last year's testimony, they had some spectacular pictures of the rusted bulk of the HVAC system sitting on top of the current building. And so that that was a, you know, piece that became a necessary need. And so then part of the puzzle last year was figuring out how to find one and a half million dollars to pay for that. And then you remember those, state house amounts that got pulled out of state buildings earlier? If you look at section eight, they're back in. So we had two fifty thousand dollar amounts pulled out, and now we put a hundred thousand dollars in for the sergeant at arms for those much more comfortable than the old chairs, chairs that are in the cafeteria. Although [Chair ]: They weren't gonna fall apart. [Damien Leonard ]: Yeah. Yeah. I think the only complaint I've heard was somebody said I wish there were more chairs. So Yeah. But You have more space. Yeah. Well, that too. So, then you're gonna see section nine, and this is a reallocation amount. And what you'll notice in here is we're going way back on some of these. So we've got, twenty fifteen the twenty fifteen capital bill here. We're adjusting an amount. Twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. And so what we're basically doing is we're taking, money that was unspent from previous capital bills, and we're reallocating it. So, again, this goes back to that idea of not leaving money on the table. This is money that was appropriated, was authorized, and never got spent. And so sometimes the reason why it takes so long is because these projects have been in process. So this money was authorized back in twenty fifteen. Finally, in twenty twenty four, we could say the total amount that's left on the table is a hundred and forty seven thousand. And now we're gonna reauthorize that so we can use it for something else. [Chair ]: So we have that repro committee, and it's Mary and Troy and Brian. And that's what you're gonna be looking at because the governor will have new new amounts, new projects, and we do a deeper dive because we don't always trust what's presented to us. Then once you folks do that work, you work with joint fiscal office, you work with the different departments, agencies. And then when we do markup, you'll be telling us you found maybe another hundred thousand. Maybe you found another half million. Maybe you only found fifty thousand. Then we add that to the bill, bottom line. [Damien Leonard ]: So, as you'll you'll notice going down, there, we added a whole bunch of new sections, seventeen through twenty four, adding in additional amounts that we found in more recent capital bills. [Chair ]: And that was the work of the brief hold committee. [Damien Leonard ]: And then the bottom there, you'll see the the total amount reallocated to defray expenditures there in subsection h. And then the below that is total reallocations and transfers. For section sixteen, you get bottom line dollar amount. So I'm sorry. The subsection h is from the prior year bond cost estimates, money that we were able to get back, and then the total dollar amount for the section is below that under total reallocations and transfers. And this is stuff that is much easier to pull apart on Scott's spreadsheet than it is here because there, you're able to just see the numbers. [Chair ]: So in essence, that seventeen point three five eight million is dollars that were already appropriated in previous capital bills that did not go out the door or were balances left on the project that was so we have authorized those those projects, but we also appropriated the dollars. Projects are completed or they didn't go poor. So we have access to that bonding capacity that we approved years back. We haven't lost that bonding capacity of the seventeen point three million. So we can add that to the recommended bonding capacity for the two years, and the recommended bonding capacity was a hundred and eight million. So we could add, and we did, that seventeen point three million to the hundred and eight million to come up to maybe I'm not doing math in public. Can't do math in public. But if you go back to page one, it gave the authority for a hundred and thirty million. And that's where some of that additional the seventeen point three million added on top of the one zero eight gets you closer to the one thirty. Brian? [Damien Leonard ]: Are there questions about bonding that [Speaker 2 ]: are saved for when secretary Picek is in? [Damien Leonard ]: Yes. Cool. [Chair ]: We're gonna go through all of that. [Damien Leonard ]: I am not an expert on bonding. [Speaker 2 ]: Fair enough. [Chair ]: The credit card, please. [Speaker 2 ]: Yes. [Chair ]: Yeah. And you haven't used all all of your credit limit, though you may have appropriated enough, bought enough stuff maybe, but it didn't all go through. Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: So [Chair ]: you still have a little bit left. Yeah. [Damien Leonard ]: And then if you look at, section seventeen, you'll notice, there was an authorization for a hundred and eight million in the original bill. And, then as you go down, you'll notice we added a new subsection b, and this was authorizing the state treasurer to issue additional bonds in the amount of five and a quarter million that were previously appropriate but unissued. And if I remember right, this is because we were able to get the bonds for lower a lower cost than had been anticipated so that it expanded our bonding capacity. [Chair ]: Oh, the bond premium. Yes. We don't have that every year. [Damien Leonard ]: Yeah. So that was good fortune. [Chair ]: Yeah. It was good. So we ended up with five point two million more that we could use. So that got added to at one zero eight. Then you had seventeen point three million, which brought us up to about a hundred and twenty five million we had to work with for two years. And then you add the five point two, brings you up to about a hundred and thirty million. And that goes back to page one where it says it's the intent that a hundred and thirty million hundred and thirty point six million is authorized in this act. That's where the money has come from. You got the base of one zero eight, hundred and eight million for two years, then the reallocations were added to that seventeen point three million. And then those bonds that really didn't go out, that's another five point two million to get you to one hundred and thirty million. So there's a lot of moving pieces when you do our budget. So this year, for FY twenty six and twenty seven, what's been recommended for those two years is a hundred million dollar bond capacity, not a hundred and eight. We're at a hundred million. [Speaker 2 ]: That's the recommendation from [Chair ]: From the debt affordability committee, which the state treasurer will talk to. How that all that has arrived. That's what the recommend it was recommended back, I believe it was around October. They make the recommendation to the legislative branch and to the executive branch. And then when the governor formulates his capital bill, his capital budget, it will be within the confines of a hundred million for two years. And that's the budget that we will get. And then we go from there. [Damien Leonard ]: So section eleven, these are so we've just been going through the bonded dollars. This is money that is, essentially cash appropriation. So it's not bonded appropriations. It's cash for that's appropriated in the big bill. So, this money we started doing this last biennium. Is that right? Or [Chair ]: Yeah. It's been circling around for about three years. [Damien Leonard ]: Yeah. So [Chair ]: we did it last biennium. [Damien Leonard ]: Yeah. So it's it's cash amounts. And so you'll see that it's the same sort of line item. It's just a different funding source. So instead of pulling the funds and again, we're authorizing the spending, the money is appropriated in the budget. And so you'll see here, we made adjustments. We struck through some of the amounts. We adjusted other amounts. And, again, you're playing within a pool of a set amount of dollars, and you're making adjustments within that pool to spend the money where it can best be spent in the short term. So, in some of these cases, money was adjusted because the amounts changed. In other cases, the money was adjusted because it was needed somewhere else. So you'll see, like, Vermont State Colleges, they were drawn down from seven and a half million to six and a half million, and the money was reallocated. [Chair ]: For this, we will we will see the projects, I'm assuming we will see the projects, listed in the governor's capital budget. The money itself will be in appropriations committee in the big bill. So we work pretty closely with our colleagues in appropriations committee. And we had for the two years, we had of the general fund in appropriations of our big bill, the budget, For the two years, we had forty five point seven million dollars come out of our general fund cash to pay for projects in our capital bill. If we didn't have that kind of that kind of cash so that puts pressure on your general fund budget. But if we didn't have that kind of cash, we'd have to find a lot of these projects won't be going forward because we have the cap on the bonds that we can bond for. Connor? [Speaker 2 ]: I I don't think we codified it, but I remember the administration had, like, the formula they used for the cash fund. Was that, like, three percent of the general fund that they like to use? [Chair ]: Or I think we did I think we did codify some of that. And that might be good for ledge counsel to have testimony coming in at some point on the structure of the cash fund. [Speaker 2 ]: Emily Burn is coming in sometime next week for the next scheduled call. [Chair ]: We left it kinda ambiguous, though, because we use may instead of shall for the Yeah. I think may. Yeah. Yeah. [Damien Leonard ]: You're right. That's what we [Chair ]: got. So we are linked very closely to appropriations committee. So what will happen for something like this, for some topics that we are linked to for the appropriations committee, we will have a committee member be liaison to the respective person on the appropriations committee for that. And they will have someone as liaison to us. We're just not there yet, but we'll have that as we go forward. So we can and the chair of the appropriations committee and the chair and me, we work pretty closely too that. Because sometimes, if they are in a bind where they don't have enough general fund dollars, we might be able to pick up something with bonded dollars. Or we might be in a real bind with bonded dollars, and they can find some cash to help us. So that's how it got [Damien Leonard ]: so I [Chair ]: know it sounds confusing, but you'll figure it out as we do it. You'll figure it out. It's playing chess chess. [Damien Leonard ]: Right. So the next part of the bill so we've gotten through the first half of the bill. That's the money half. Now we're into the policy. So some of these changes are gonna be technical changes. Some of them are gonna be expressing legislative intent. Some of them are gonna be asking the executive branch to come report back to us on certain things. So I'll try to give you a high level view. Do you have someone coming in right at ten? [Chair ]: Yeah. We have flexibility. We don't have a commissioner at BTS. Wanda knows. He's here until noon, so there's some flexibility. [Damien Leonard ]: So in I'll walk you through these with a little more depth than I did before just to give you a high level, in part because some of these reports are things that you should be receiving soon, and you may wanna look at. So, the first thing here is not a report. It's a what we would consider a technical correction. So this was old language about the, commissioner of DEC and their their process for constructing improvements for department of forest parks and recreation and so forth. So previously, they had to consult with and receive approval from the commissioner of BGS. They haven't been doing that for a very long time. And so we do this periodically. The statutes, age and don't reflect current operating. And if we approve of the current operating pattern, what we do is we update the statute to essentially bless the way the ad administration has been doing things. And in this is my eleventh session. I would say every biennium, I have a bill that does this somewhere. It's just the reality. We move slowly. We're only here five months a year. Things change in the administration, and people don't realize that there's a law saying you have to do it differently. And then they come in and they explain when they realize that there's there's a law. So what this did was it allowed, the facilities engineering section at DEC to execute and consult on design for, forest parks and rec, to provide professional engineering services, and to be the custodian of all plans of record for work executed by Forest Parks and Rec. Perfect. [Speaker 2 ]: Well, can you help me with the page? Sorry. [Damien Leonard ]: Oh, yeah. Pages fourteen and fifteen. I'm sorry. [Chair ]: That's fine. And and what I can [Damien Leonard ]: That's okay. There you go. [Chair ]: Thank you. And what I can do for folks, new folks, particularly, even returning members that they need help offline, I can sit down with you and really go through how to read a bill section, what a section means, because you'll see section twelve, but then you might see section eight underneath that. So I can help you kind of help understand how a bill is put together. [Speaker 2 ]: K. [Chair ]: I can do that offline. [Damien Leonard ]: So, the next section, section thirteen, which is on page fifteen of your copies, this was the legislative intent relating to the Salisbury Fish Hatchery. This was a hot button issue last year. [Chair ]: Well, it's this year. [Damien Leonard ]: And it yeah. So the Salisbury Fish Hatchery, essentially, the bottom line with the Salisbury Fish Hatchery is that at the end of twenty twenty seven, its current pollution discharge permit, which is under the Clean Water Act, will expire. And it's not clear well, if with the current technology and mitigation measures they have in place, it won't get a new permit. So it needs improvements. The question that's facing the state is, is the cost of those improvements worth keeping the facility open and trying to build them and get a new permit, or does it make more sense to transfer that fish hatching capacity to other fish hatcheries by either building additional facilities, expanding additional facilities, contracting, other things like that. So, what this essentially said is that the agency of natural resources has to examine options for continuing operation beyond twenty twenty seven. And they also have to examine options for replacing the stocking capacity that comes from that hatchery and to figure out possible more cost effective options. The they also have to look at how do we limit any negative economic impacts that would come from closing the hatchery in that location. And then we provided that it was our intent that the fish hatchery would not close without prior approval of the general assembly, which would be provided if the hatchery could not secure the Clean Water Act permits necessary to continue operating, or the stocking capacity could be replaced in a manner that's more cost effective than the cost of keeping it open. And so this was hotly negotiated between the house and senate last year. And as the chair mentioned, you're likely to hear much more about it. The next section is the feasibility study for that, and it requires commissioner of Fish and Wildlife to update a twenty thirteen facility modernization feasibility study, and then report back, and it should have arrived We have. Back in December. Great. That's not always the case. So [Chair ]: I'm trying to remember. Do we appropriate money for the we did appropriate money for this study. [Damien Leonard ]: For the study. Yes. [Chair ]: For a hundred thousand? [Speaker 2 ]: And for Windsor? [Damien Leonard ]: No. This is for the Southbury Statuary. I can't remember how much we appropriated Scott. Do you remember? [Speaker 2 ]: I [Chair ]: remember working with the commission saying we need Okay. They I [Damien Leonard ]: put it in here. [Speaker 2 ]: I don't remember. [Damien Leonard ]: It it may have been baked into other money that was appropriated, but there was money [Chair ]: Budget or it could be general? Yeah. [Speaker 2 ]: For the record, stop. Am I going to put stop? I believe it's baked in big budget. [Chair ]: It's budget. [Speaker 2 ]: But we won't say it's on [Chair ]: the Yeah. [Damien Leonard ]: And so that that's another piece that happens here is as we're finalizing this at the end of the year. What's gonna happen is we'll have money on the spreadsheet, and we'll have other money that we're kind of keeping a side sheet going, saying, okay. There's an extra fifty k that got added to their budget in the big bill. Or we took money out of their budget in the big bill, and we're putting it in the bonded dollars here. And, again, it's all these puzzle pieces that have to fall into place to get, the must pass bills, capital bill, big bill, transportation bill across the finish line at the end of the year because we have to figure out how to make that, finite amount of dollars work and get enough people happy that the bill passes at the end of the day, and the governor will sign it. So that's that's the the work, and there's there's always things that end up on the, cutting room floor, if you will, that, you know, some members of the committee will feel strongly about and be really disappointed to see there. And then there are other things where it is the classic sausage making where no one's really happy with the outcome, but it's what we could agree on. So I won't go into the details of the report, but that that was the report section. So you'll see that a lot. We have an intent, and then we'll have, one or two or three policy sections basically saying this is how we want you to fulfill that intent. One really important thing is the intent of this legislature does not bind the next legislature. So when we come back for twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, that legislature can say, well, that's nice that they intended that. We're gonna do something different. So constitutionally, you can never prevent a future legislature from changing the law. So that's just a good thing to keep in mind. Section fifteen relates to the sale of the Cherry Street property in Burlington. So the first year of the biennium, you authorize the sale of that property. The second year, we specified where some of the money from that sale would go, and it's basically paying back money that was loaned out of other state funds for improvements that were made to that building or for the purchase of the that building. So we're balancing the books on the back end here when we sell the property, assuming that you can get six point six million dollars at least for the sale. Yes. Has it been sold yet? I don't know. Oh, thanks. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. Are those dollars indexed, or or is it just Did you know? [Chair ]: What? You mean indexed? [Speaker 2 ]: So if a dollar was borrowed in nineteen ninety, are we paying back just a dollar, or are we paying back the three dollars and forty cents that it's actually worth that? You know? [Chair ]: The money that we've put in there and you can ask the state treasurer this depending how was it a twenty year bond? So are we still paying it off or not? And then any proceeds of a state building or state land that we own, BGS owns, any proceeds from the sale of that goes to the bottom line of the capital bill. [Damien Leonard ]: Yeah. And these were from two revolving funds that had paid out money for property management improvements and then energy improvements, weatherization? [Chair ]: So we we changed it going to the bottom line of the capital bill. So what was five million would then go into the property management revolving fund, which is housed in BGS, which they can go through when they come in and testify. Yeah. But we did the language here. We put this in because it's different than what would normally occur where the proceeds of a sale would go to the bottom line of our capital. And we're saying if if the sale, say, is ten million, say, five million of that's gonna go to the property management revolving fund, and then the balance will go to our bottom line. [Speaker 2 ]: What Joe was asking is more about the accounting principle, time value of money. [Chair ]: Yeah. That's a discussion with the treasurer. Yeah. [Damien Leonard ]: I think treasurer and BGS can fill you in on how they come up with the numbers. I can tell you from my perspective. I look to Scott and the agency to tell me what the right number is for the bill I don't ask a lot of questions. So especially last year where I was I was coming in. I think I came in [Chair ]: You came in at [Damien Leonard ]: weeks before crossover Note six. To to get the bill across. And so I was learning on my feet, and I'm still learning about capital billing. Who knows? May continue learning this year. Well, [Speaker 2 ]: I'm reading this. This is authorizing the sale Yep. For six point two million as for sale. [Damien Leonard ]: It's authorizing the sale for fair market value. Okay. Fair market value. And then we're saying of what you get. So let's say they sold it for ten million dollars. We're saying the first six point six and a quarter million have to go to property management revolving fund. Yes. And then three hundred thousand have to go to the state energy revolving fund, and then the rest will go to the bottom line of the capital bill. So we're basically saying whatever you get fair market value, we're gonna divert these funds away from that first, and then the rest will go to the bottom line. [Speaker 2 ]: What happens if it actually is five million instead of the ten million you're hoping? [Damien Leonard ]: Then we'll probably have to go back and adjust the deposits, and then we'd we'd have a loss on the property management revolving fund that we'd have to figure out there because this was money that was supposed to refill what was spent. Right. And then yeah. So that would come back in a future capital bill when they sell it. They would say, well, you know, let's say they got a million dollars. They'd say this is how we'd like to allocate that money. This committee would decide whether or not they approve of that allocation and then go from there. [Speaker 2 ]: So in the case of this Cherry Street proceed, is the two hundred ninety three thousand subordinate to the six point two? Or if there were a shortfall where it just be proportional payback. [Damien Leonard ]: There so with with this, there's no subordination set out in the statute here. If we wanted to make one subordinate to the other, we would say that expressly. But if there is a shortfall, what's gonna happen is BGS will come in with a recommendation, and this committee will decide whether or not to follow that recommendation based on testimony. So you may hear get testimony from the treasurer too, and think about needs and uses for these funds. But it this isn't like, you may be thinking of, like, a property where you have a first mortgage and then a second mortgage that's subordinate to the first. This isn't like that. These are this is like you managing your bank accounts. And if you've got a small business and two accounts that you put the money in and you have less money come in one year, you're gonna decide how you allocate your funds for your business. Do you invest in new equipment, or are you putting the money into savings or, you know, investments of other sorts? [Chair ]: And if the sale of that property occurs during the legislative session, then you can address it during that session if you don't have enough proceeds from the sale to carry this out. If it occurs during the summer and fall when we're not in session, they will BGS will reach out to the respective chairs of the two committees and say, this is what happened, so we can't meet what's in the capital bill. This is what we're proposing. And they would propose that to the governor. And the governor would then take it or would change it and propose it in their capital budget that they present the beginning of the next session. So that's how it would guess, no doubt. So it depends when it happens. And we've had one away on the market for two years now. It's been close to two years. [Speaker 2 ]: Is does someone does someone like, is a commercial company [Chair ]: list it? We work with BGS. In BGS, we've given BGS now the authority to list it with BGS. Before, they could not do that. Last year, we gave them the authority that they could do that. So we we'll talk to BGS about all of the little nuances when they sell property. [Damien Leonard ]: So, turning to page nineteen, the next three sections are all related to each other. So what happens is in two prior capital bills, you authorize the sale of the old Williston State Police Barracks. You probably are all familiar with it up in tapped corners there where you get off the highway. It's on the right side. The what happened last year is that word came into the committee that the town of Williston might be interested in that property and repurposing it for a municipal use, but we'd already authorized the sale. So and Williston didn't have specifics about how they might use it. They hadn't had enough time to have their municipal governing body meetings come up with a plan. So we said it is the intent of the general assembly that they would report to this committee this month regarding whether they wanna purchase the property. And if so, the feasibility of them doing that, including any conditions that they would request and the potential future use uses envisioned by the town. So this basically gives you the information that you would need to decide if you wanna give them a preferential right to purchase it first before it goes on the open market or a right of first refusal if there's an offer on the open market. So there are different ways to approach that. And then because we'd already authorized it, the next two sections revised that prior authorization to say beginning July one of twenty twenty five. So after this year's capital bill will take effect, you could sell it. And then that gives you time in this year's capital bill If you are going decide if you do decide to offer it to Williston first to revise those sections again without the state getting closet. So, it it basically, this is the way we go in and adjust prior law to delay things so that we have time to get the information we need, because the property hadn't sold yet. I think it's still being used for storage by the state. And is it also temporary shelter, the Williston State Police Barracks? [Chair ]: It's that is correct. It is being utilized right now. It's a temporary shelter. Wanda, the milling commissioner of BTS for the record. [Damien Leonard ]: To put you on the spot as you come in, commissioner. [Speaker 2 ]: It's it's [Chair ]: really fine. [Damien Leonard ]: So, that brings us to section nineteen of last year's bill, and these were technical changes to the authority and duties of the commissioner of BGS. So, the first piece on the bottom of page twenty is we used to allow the commissioner to acquire an option on a property for up to seventy five thousand dollars that hasn't kept pace with inflation. And so instead of coming back and revising that every few years, try to keep up with inflation, we said for a price not to exceed five percent of the listed sale price. And what this essentially does is it allows the commissioner when we're not in session. If a property comes up on the market that the state is interested in acquiring, it allows BGS to acquire an option to buy that property and then to come back to this committee when we are in session to get the authorization to do the purchase. Because BGS needs the authorization from this committee and the money to be appropriated for that purchase. And so that's what this does. And it the idea here was to prevent BGS from having its hands tied because the realtor was asking for four or five percent of the thousand dollars. And as the real estate market appreciates in this state, that's becoming more and more common that properties that are big enough for the state are going to run above that amount. [Chair ]: So BGS cannot buy or sell property that would be under their jurisdiction without the authority of the general assembly. They can lease, but they cannot buy or sell. So it has to come before us and be approved by the generals. [Damien Leonard ]: And this this gets down to the separation of the powers between the three branches of government. So you can think of the the legislature appropriates the money and authorizes it spending, and then the the executive branch carries out the sort of policy, directions of the legislature, and they're the ones who do the day to day execution of the law. So and it there are it can get hazy there. You can delegate authority from the legislature and so forth, but that's the general Schoolhouse Rock sort of version of how we do things here. So the next change on page twenty one was just reflecting that our our capital bills used to be an annual bill. Now it's a biannual bill where we do the program [Speaker 2 ]: for two years in the first year, and we make adjustments [Damien Leonard ]: in the second year. Subdivision twenty was, another adjustment for inflation. So this is authority to transfer unexpended balances between projects that are authorized in different capital construction acts. So let's say you had unexpended money from the twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two act, and you wanted to spend it in the twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four act, you could transfer that money. Used to be up to a hundred thousand. We authorized up to two hundred thousand last year. Same thing in twenty two. This is we have a contingency fund to cover shortfalls on appropriations within Capital Construction Act. And, basically, above the amount set in statute, you have to get the approval of the secretary of administration. Previously, that was at fifty thousand. We moved it up to a hundred. So these are sort of classic technical questions in the policy section. Section twenty is along the same lines, but this gets to the authorization to sell through, a real estate broker. And so this is we added language here. So you have to sell to the highest bidder. We had language that said, in no event shall property be sold for less than fair market value as determined by an independent broker or appraiser, retained by the commissioner unless the general assembly authorizes it. So sometimes we authorize a sale to a municipality for below market value because it serves the public good. [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. [Damien Leonard ]: Section twenty one, this is another sort of hot potato issue, naming of state buildings. So under Right. [Speaker 2 ]: We are gonna take a break. [Chair ]: We are gonna take a break. [Speaker 2 ]: Go out building somewhere? Yep. [Damien Leonard ]: So I'm we're we're not gonna go into specifics because I don't want anyone to get heartburn. Yep. But, basically, who who is in charge of naming state buildings? Under current lots, the general assembly. This committee, in particular, has been interested in moving that authority elsewhere in state government so that you don't have to spend legislative time debating whether a certain, you know, historical figure in our state, deserves to have their name put on a building or what to do when we go to sell that building, such as with one zero eight Cherry Street. And then do you name another building for that individual and so forth? So that report is due back to this committee, I believe, in February. And so you'll hear back from them on whether they have a proposal for another entity in state government to have that authority with transportation. That authority lies with the transportation board, but that would be things like the so and so memorial highway or bridge or rest area, which is a little different than the tax building or something like that, which was anyway, we'll move on. Section twenty two is another report looking at the transfer of part of the old Southeast State Correctional Facility to Fish and Wildlife for use in a wildlife management area. One of the key things with that facility is there's been a lot of discussion about reuse or selling it for development and so forth, but large portions of it are undevelopable because they are wetlands or too steep. And already a big portion of the land for the old correctional facility has been sold to this, to become a wildlife management area. And so one of the things is Fish and Wildlife came in and said, we could use more. And we think that there are portions that, can't be developed that you could transfer into wildlife management. So this is looking at that and identifying whether there are potential concerns, rights of way, other things like that. So for example, water, sewer, fiber optic, and other services that might need to go to the property to allow it to be redeveloped. Southern state correctional facility. So different correctional facility in the town of Springfield. [Speaker 2 ]: Mhmm. [Damien Leonard ]: And this was authorizing the transfer of ten acres to be used for Newtown Garage in Springfield. And then it sets a time time limit on that. So that transfer authority expires July one of twenty twenty seven. [Chair ]: So This was all part of the original contract that was negotiated [Speaker 2 ]: Yeah. [Chair ]: With the town of Springfield and the state way back in our day. Wanda? The EGS. They closed the deal and worked with the we identified We identified the when when we built that correctional facility, the state purchased chunk of land in Springfield. And there was an agreement made that after the facility was developed that a portion of the land will be transferred to the town of Springfield, that Springfield could use it for economic development or whatever. The issue that has been percolating over the years is who's gonna own the road going up there, because it's really steep and curvy. And right now, the state owns the road, so therefore the state maintains it. And the issue has been with the town that if we get the acreage, then we own this town would own the road. And that's been the stumbling block for

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