SmartTranscript of House Commerce - 2025-02-20 - 9:00AM

[Chair Michael Marcotte]: Good morning, everyone. This is the Vermont House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development. It is Thursday, February twenty, twenty twenty five. But we're beginning our day today hearing from members of the Northeast Kingdom Collaborative. It's Northeast Kingdom Day, and all the kingdom is here today. We certainly appreciate this full room. I don't I think this is the first time we really filled this room up since COVID since before COVID having this many people in it. So it's it's good to see the room filled again, although it might not be so great for those of you who have to stand up. But we appreciate all of you coming in, appreciate everyone coming down from the kingdom to let everyone know what's going on, the good things that are happening in the kingdom, and things that we need to have in the kingdom to make these good things continue on and can continue to grow as we do on other parts of the state. So, welcome, everybody. Thank you for coming. Abby, if you'd like to kick it off. [Abby Long]: Thank you. Good morning, everyone. My name is Abby Long. I'm the executive director for the Kingdom Trail Association located, of course, in the Northeast Kingdom. But I also serve as the board chair of the NEK collaborative, which is the organization really uplifting today. And we'd love to extend our thank you, and thank you for welcoming us. Representative Marcotte, you have always been a true champion of the Northeast Kingdom, your home. And we have some other champions in the room. The NEK Collaborative's mission is to really be a neutral convener and a motivating voice, a unified voice for the kingdom. And we've brought many voices today to do just that. So with that, I'm gonna hand it over to Loralee, the NEK Chamber. Correct? [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Thank you, Abby. And and, Loralee, before you get started, I'll just have, introduce everyone around the room to the members of this committee. You'll see that we go from one end of the state to the other from, the Northeast Kingdom to the Southwest. There used to be a a kingdom connection to, like, Coventry to panel. Now there's still a Coventry panel connection again with with representative Jonathan Cooper here with us. So, Jonathan? [Member Jonathan Cooper]: I'm the Southwest Principality, I suppose. I'm Jonathan Cooper. I live in Powell, and the Bennington one district includes the towns of Reedsboro, Searsburg, Stanford, and Wiltshire. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Brent. Representative from Wilmington, Lincoln here in Halifax. [Speaker 4 ]: Earl Lawson, representing Bristol, Lincoln, Duncan, Starks, Florida, Northeast, Addison County. [Member Abbey Duke]: I'm I'm Abby Duke. I represent part of Burlington. [Vice Chair Edie Brannick]: Hi. Edie Brannick representing Jericho and Underhill in Chittenden County, and I'm vice chair of the committee. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: And I'm Mike Markoff from Coventry representing Coventry, Irishburg, Newport Town, Troy, Jay Westfield, Lowell, Eaton, and chair of the committee. [Speaker 7 ]: I'm Kirk White. I represent Bethel Rochester Stockbridge at Hancock. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: I'm the ranking member. [Michael Boutin]: Michael Luton, Barrick City. [Member Tony Miklus]: Tony Nicholas representing most of Milton and a little bit of Georgia. [Michael Boutin]: Dave Bosch representing Wallingford, Clarendon, West Rutland, and the bulk of Rutland town. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Hey. Thanks. [Rick Ufford-Chase]: And, Bruce, I represent Zoom and YouTube. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: And probably the most important person in the. [Witness Loralee Tester]: Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. As you know, I'm Laura Lee Kester. I'm the director of the Northeast Kingdom Chamber of Commerce. I've been there since the end of April, and I've have spent the last eight months really trying to understand the region and the business community and and and their needs. I find one of the greatest issues for my region and the businesses and their ability to succeed is actually workforce, I think, is one of the primary challenges that they're facing. And and I have come to understand poignantly that the strength of the Vermont's economy, really rests on the people who live and work here now. And and right now, we are at a breaking point. Businesses across this the region are are really struggling to find workers, to find qualified workers. And and I think especially in the northeast kingdom, our industries are so deeply tied to our our land, and our traditions and our community institutions. The workforce crisis is not just about filling those jobs. It's really about whether our region can sustain itself into the future on on a lot of different levels. And just to share a few stories to illustrate that issue, our local hospital that serves it's a wide wide region, especially even even reaching all the way up into Newport to support North Country Hospital as well. They have turned away dozens of of qualified medical professionals of of all ranges because people can't find places to live. Right? That's one of a a huge, huge issue. They were super excited to move here and work here, and we have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in Vermont, if not millions, to try to draw people here. People want to come, but they they can't because we don't have places to live. We don't it's it's it's not a place that people can afford to live. I think the same is true for our manufacturing sector. The Chamber has hosts a manufacturing consortium. We've got people from Momentum, Precision Composites, Weidman, Linen Furniture, Mobile Medical, Fairbanks, you know, all of these people, and they could they could increase their work by millions of dollars that would would come into the the region. But that hinges their success hinges on the workforce, and and drawing them is is not been successful. It's really, really challenging. Schools. Our schools, there's a desperate need for qualified educators in our region. Every school in the kingdom, at least, I'd probably the state of Vermont, is looking. They have job openings for qualified educators, and they're not able to to draw them for for multiple reasons. And I think that that we lack we lack infrastructure. We lack professional networks. We lack career growth opportunities that are available in more populated areas, and that's not even talking about the affordability issues of the region. As a chamber, we work closely with businesses, with our educational institutions, and our our municipalities to address these challenges. One of the major focuses that I've tried to take on is is workforce development and working with our career technical educator programs at schools like Linen Institute, where they have advanced manufacturing, automotive technology, and welding, which are preparing our students, which has been a really wonderful opportunity as I've developed the manufacturing consortium. So I have people from BTSU, people from Linen Institute, Vermont manufacturing, so v VMEC and the Department of Labor. And these programs that we're trying to develop are to really provide hands on real training for the people who live here already that will lead directly to employment. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: You're also working with the Gitkey Academy as well? [Witness Loralee Tester]: Yes. Yeah. So the CT program, they are actually a linked program. The person who came to my meet you know, has has been attending, has been representing Lynn and his too but, yes. Yep. They they are a joint program. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Heard from Patrick yesterday. We did a Oh, super. Lot of discussion yesterday on CTE. We're charged we'll be charged with the CTE portion of the whole education of the organization. Okay. So that's we're gonna start working on that. We're taking starting to take this on. [Witness Loralee Tester]: Wonderful. Yeah. It's been one of my, like, suggestions in here that I have to say this is a place that we really, really could invest in. I think that would it would pay off. Yeah. Because these are kids who they are people young these adults and and students that that live here. And so you some of those challenges that we have might not be quite as challenging if if we can retain those those young people. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Great. Yeah. Have you have you had the opportunity to to or do you know that we have a new executive director of workforce strategy and development at Shake? That's a new position that we created last year, the person's been hired, Sabina Haskell Sabina Haskell. [Witness Loralee Tester]: How could I connect? Oh, super. Department of Labor right there. That's great. I would love that. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Department of Labor provides her with administrative help. So she's charged with reaching out and, I think, first, you're finding out everything that's going on in the state [Witness Loralee Tester]: Mhmm. Yes. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Development. Not just WIOA centric, but for everything, everybody that's out there doing workforce development. And then trying to eventually, we want, for her to start convening groups, to better understand what each region is doing. I think the Department of Labor did that a number of years ago, that seemed to show that there are strong areas of the state that are that are doing well with trying to focus, workforce development in other parts of the state that aren't. And so we're trying to figure that out and then slip more resources toward to to all of it. [Witness Loralee Tester]: That would be a great asset to the conversation. Thank you for the suggestion. And then I think the other piece are barriers to employment. And, you know, when you again think about all the infrastructure issues, transportation, childcare, those are huge issues and and a conversation for many of the many of the manufacturers that they might have some people, but they don't actually have a car that's reliable and can't get to work. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: So We've seen more slots of childcare in the kingdom since we asked the childcare law a couple years ago. [Witness Loralee Tester]: It's slow. It's yeah. It's I think it's one of those things that's a slow start. That's another piece that Linen Institute has they opened up with with partnering with NECA. They have a childcare facility on the campus, and they actually have a childcare educator who is working with the program. So they have this woman, Nicole Ruggles. She owned her own Montessori school for for a couple decades. So she's there teaching our students, the, you know, the linen institutes students or the CTE students because that could be the academy, any any of our neighboring schools who are interested in childcare. So it's a problem that's being worked towards, but it's a slow, a slow start. And then I think other the other piece that is a huge challenge are are regulatory costs. Things are you know, there are a lot of, just the mere fact of doing business in Vermont is expensive, and that's a very, very real challenge. It's difficult for businesses to grow, pay competitive wages, and invest in their workforce. And so, you know, when we ask small businesses what would help, they say fewer barriers. Right? Like, don't make it so hard to succeed, and and more flexibility in policies that recognize the reality of doing business in a rural in a rural region. And so I would, you know, respectfully suggest a real focus again in that workforce development, strengthening those partnerships and CTE programs. These are students that are here that are are looking to succeed. Right? However that might be, and there's a lot of options that are here if we can just support the the educational pathways. I think investing in in the rural transportation. You know, RCT does a great job of making sure that they are supported. I know funding is challenging, but that's a very real issue, as well as the child care containing on that and reducing those regulatory burdens on on the employers. Echoing the [Chair Michael Marcotte]: child care. Mhmm. And, you know, payroll tax went into effect last July. What are you hearing from your business community? Rushing. [Witness Loralee Tester]: So It's really hard. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: They so they don't have to pay it. They can if they want. [Witness Loralee Tester]: Mhmm. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: I mean, the the payroll tax. Mhmm. So you're finding that to be difficult, or did are they finding it as an investment in their work for it? [Witness Loralee Tester]: I have not I to be honest, I haven't spoken to that many people who who are facing that. I think that the so a couple of the larger employers that I've talked to about that issue that it's who are absorbing the cost, it's the number of people who actually need to take advantage of it are very, very few. Because, for example, at NBRH, if you look at the average age of person who works there, they don't need the childcare. But it's a it's a huge expense added to an already very complicated budget, if that makes sense. And I don't know. I'm not I am I am speaking not fully competent or or educated in this topic, but those that is, like, something I have I have heard that it's that it it would be if that money was actually invested in the thing that they need. So it's a con it's just complicated. Right? It's such a worthwhile thing, but it's also But There are unintended consequences. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: One hand, they're having trouble bringing doctors and nurses in. Mhmm. And some of it is housing and some of it is child care. Mhmm. And on the other hand [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Right. Right? [Witness Loralee Tester]: So Right. It's impossible. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: You know, I think, you know, when we talked about the tax and, I mean, when I mean, I'm not crazy about taxes and I own a business. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Mhmm. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: But when I look at it and I don't have any people in my business that have children. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Mhmm. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: What I have had and where they've had difficulties in they're having to bring their children to work Mhmm. And sit there in a store while they're working. And so I I understand it, and I'm willing to pay that because it's an investment in our whole system. And I'm hoping that although it it can be difficult that that our businesses are looking at it as an investment in our whole system. [Witness Loralee Tester]: Absolutely. But I I think sometimes the payoff takes a little bit longer to really see. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Yeah. Understood. But it's, you know, it it's kind of we need housing and we need childcare, but we don't wanna pay for it. But we do have to pay for it. We have to make those investments and and it's something that, you know, we all pay for school. We don't a lot of us around this table don't have kids in school anymore, but we're still paying for it. And and I think this is the same. We're looking at it as the same thing. And and we heard we did take a lot of testimony from businesses that said, yes. We're willing to absorb that because it's an investment. I mean, I'm sure there's others that see it, don't see it that way. [Witness Loralee Tester]: I think you're making me realize I need to talk more about the the impact of the payroll tax onto to some of my businesses because I don't I don't have enough knowledge to actually speak to your question. I'm sorry. It's okay. Thank you for your time. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: So Any anyone have Any questions? Questions? I don't need to be the only one asking questions around the table. [Vice Chair Edie Brannick]: I just I just wanna say, I've been to the NEK three times now in the last six weeks, I think. And mostly for legislative things, but also for fun. And I just appreciate everybody being here. I appreciate the work that you're doing up there. It's a lovely place. And yeah. I I mean, I go for fun. Right? So and I think that we need to focus on where we are having growth in the state. Right? We were just at Galvion where they're, you know, growing their business there. We also, in December, talked to, Ethan Allen. We're having trouble, right, getting enough staff. And so we're just it's it's important for us to understand where the pinch points are and where, you know, where specific health is is necessary and, obviously, housing statewide. Well, to [Witness Loralee Tester]: to be honest, though, I think that's one of our that is actually one of our larger challenges, I think. And it's a tricky thing because it's telling somebody how to use their house or who gets to buy it is is complicated. But we have hundreds of homes that have been sold, especially since COVID, from people who are from out of who don't live here. It's their second or third or fourth home because it's a beautiful place to be. There's you know, especially it's magical. Right? The mountain is so wonderful. There's so many lovely things to do. There's kingdom trails. It's it's what a cool place to have a second home, but there are hundreds of homes that exist right now that people stay in for a couple weekends of the year. And that's a huge problem. So people who do live and want to work in the area have nowhere to go. So do we need more houses? Maybe not. You know, there are a lot of houses that exist, and we don't wanna change our landscape either. I mean, it is a beautiful place to live, and you don't wanna house every you know, we don't want quarter acre lots, but that's a hard thing. Like, how do you manage that? [Chair Michael Marcotte]: You know, looking at growth centers and and, you know, our designated downtown or village centers. And off of those, how do we how do we grow housing [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Right. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Off of those so that we're not creating for all. Mhmm. That would And [Witness Loralee Tester]: when our city centers, though, are in a flood zone, that because it's there's a lot of there's a lot of complicating factors. [Member Jonathan Cooper]: Thank you, Sasha, for sort of bringing the Chamber's perspective. Something that down in Southwestern Warner Chamber had talked a lot about over the years was connectivity and broadband. And I was just curious to know how has your membership have they seen a lot of uptake as any k broadband is sort of rolling out? I'd like to hear a little bit more about some patterns. If so, there's been some connectivity solutions in what had previously been kind of an area that was just very much off the map for the future of connectivity. [Witness Loralee Tester]: Right now, it's it's, I think many of my smaller businesses and that's been an interesting thing to being the the director. I've got a lot of a lot of businesses that still have no interest at all in being connected in any way. Like, no, you know, no website, no Facebook page, no, like, this is how I do my business, and they're just totally happy with it. And then the larger businesses have it all kind of sorted out. I think that their connectivity issues for, you know, home businesses, it is complicated. Like, my you know, every my Internet system is horrible at my own home. Right? It's it's so difficult. And I it's just, again, a very slow process. There's a lot of promise of, you know, the NEK broadband, but, yes, being being extended out. But it's I think people are bated breath, but it's Yeah. Beginning to gasp a little bit. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: So what's working for your folks? I understand there are, like, definitely a lot of challenges, but where where are the successes? [Witness Loralee Tester]: You know, I think that there was a lot of the northeast kingdom is a very independent they find their strength and their independence, which is interesting, I think, with the flooding in the past last year and the year before. The the brink coming together of the community was probably the most powerful thing. You know, you saw the day after the the first July flood, you know, the the number of volunteers, people were being turned away as, you know, as you're dealing with the you know, our you know, a few of the stores that were right there in the center. And I think that that gave people, tremendous hope even as FEMA was saying no to different supports. So people are find their strength in those types of things. And so I I look at the success of the pizza man coming back from the flood or the Bagel Depot, for example, that lost everything, and hundreds of people come over the course of the week, and then it gives hope. That's it's it's the it's the despite all the other challenges that they're finding their success, and then it brings the community together. And then I think they have more business than they've ever had because people realize how much it matters to them. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: And I think, you know, Wyman, they're they're putting on it's, you know, building their business up as well. [Witness Loralee Tester]: Yeah. Huge expansion. I think forty two million dollars. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: That's huge for the kingdom, especially the St. Johnsbury, Linden area. [Witness Loralee Tester]: But how you know? And I don't mean to focus on the negative. I apologize if that's how I'm coming across. But that broke you know, I had a really remarkable tour of Linden furniture and Vermont aerospace, actually, just in the last month. And they they are doing amazing things. It's really cool. I don't know if any of you have had a chance to tour a manufacturing facility like one of those. Just amazing. And and they are so nervous about that expansion because they what ends up what's happened for the last thirty years is it's like, oh, hey. Come over here. You know, they're kinda doing the same thing, and so they they have poached from each other. And so I think it's been a really interesting piece to have the group, all of them together for the consortium to hear, like, they're we we need to work together because it's it doesn't work anymore for, you know, it's like, hey. I I can offer you an extra twenty five cents an hour. You should come here. So it's it's it's been interesting for them to say, okay. What does it mean to work here? How do we make it be a place that you want to be? But we we need more workforce because to support a forty two million dollar expansion, they're they're gonna there's a fear of them taking from from other of the businesses. You're hearing that [Chair Michael Marcotte]: we rely a lot on tourism. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Mhmm. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: And I know, you know, in the news last night, heard from Steve Wright, JP, that they're really worried about the issues with the new administration with our neighbors to the north. Mhmm. And we had the consul general here yesterday from Canada, came and visit and had a discussion with us about, you know, all of those issues, tariffs and across border, you know, people coming in, people going to Canada. It sounds like JP is already seeing that issue of, you know, our neighbors to the north coming, not wanting to come down and, partake in what we have. And so and I and I can see where we're nervous about going up to Canada too because how are we gonna be seen? Right? We go up with a green license plate. How are they gonna take this? And, you know, we're hoping that that we've always had a civil and friendly and we're all a lot of us are relative too, that we have continued those, those connections that we have even though there's issues going on in in the federal government and both governments. So but I'm wondering if you're hearing any if if anyone in Europe area of the kingdom are seeing a drop off yet or well, I'm sure there's a lot of worry going. But [Witness Loralee Tester]: I think I honestly, I would have to say that Abby Long would probably be a much more knowledgeable speaker to that question. [Abby Long]: It's a yes. Like, we, overnight, multiple lodging institutions in the Burke area that surrounds Kingwood trails had cancellations from Canadians for this upcoming summer. And I've received personal emails from, trail users that are up in Quebec, which actually make up thirty eight percent of KT's trail users, which is a lot. And that they love us, but they won't be visiting for four years until our political environment shifts. I know JP and Katie, we made statements about two weeks ago, not in political, just that we love Canadians, that they are vital to our community, and that they hope we hope that they still feel welcome when they come and that we hope that they do come. I have been in touch with Commissioner Pelham of tourism and marketing for the state. And my hope maybe is that there could be some state support encountering the national message. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Other question? [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Okay. Thank you very much. [Witness Loralee Tester]: So much. I appreciate it. K. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: K. So let's sit there. I'm gonna [Chair Michael Marcotte]: space the same Nope. I'm right there. Morning. Morning. Hello, everybody. Hey, guys. [Mike Reddy]: I'm Mike Reddy. I live in West Wheelock, which is Caledonia three. I'm a board member of Headwaters Community Trust, a newly formed nonprofit housing trust with the mission of developing community controlled and perpetually affordable homes and infrastructure. I'm also a member of NECCO, Northeast Gateway Organizing, and a board member of We Let Mountain Farm. Thanks for taking the time to listen to my words. I have very little experience with this, so be patient with me. The housing crisis, which we've already heard about intersects directly with so many of our other pressing issues in our region. Inadequate and substandard housing has a cascading impact on physical and emotional health, educational performance and truancy, criminality and addiction, and a lack of housing hamstrings local businesses, which we've heard about, whose employees can't find suitable places to live. The option that many employers in my neck of the woods, are choosing is to buy or build housing themselves and become landlords for their employees. This creates a real issue of precarity where losing your job means losing your housing too. I think we've gotta do better than creating twenty first century company towns. Unfortunately, the few affordable housing options in the kingdom are still a cost burden to many of the people in my community. Proposed affordable projects cost upwards of five hundred thousand dollars a unit to develop with rents that still cost as much as a mortgage payment. As has been said, the difference between a renter and a homeowner is a down payment, not to mention the ability to earn equity and build generational wealth. For this reason, I encourage the legislature to strengthen existing down payment assistance programs. In addition, many of the people I speak to also express a desire to have access to land for growing food. We found that the community trust organizational structure coupled with a housing a cluster housing design orientation can facilitate both affordable homeownership and access to shared land and community infrastructure. I wanna applaud the work of the land access opportunity board and preservation trust of Vermont who have supported our success to this point and also a bunch of appreciation to northeast kingdom organizing and curve our long term recovered group who have worked tirelessly to save the housing stock that we have that's been so affected and impacted by the floods. And I wanna ask the legislature to prioritize funding nonpro profit housing initiatives that help people to afford to their own homes and access land. This proactive approach will reduce the need for the state to spend money in reactive, shortsighted, and fiscally irresponsible ways on temporary fixes, medical expenses, addiction services, special education, policing, and incarceration. And finally, I wanna encourage investment in innovative workforce development programs and cooperative trade schools. Where developing housing, doing construction is the educational experience and thereby serves both the immediate and future needs of the community. I don't know how much time I have, but, I just wanna say want that the only reason I can do this, the work that I've been doing trying to develop affordable housing is because I live in shared housing myself. I live on a a community land project that's different than the model I'm we're working to develop. And the difference is that I live on VLT conserved land, Vermont Land Trust, which is a conservation trust, and we're developing a community land trust, which is actually, like, a community development trust. So the orientation is different. And actually where I live, my rent is kept very low because we're sharing expenses across several families, but we can't develop housing on it because the land is an easement for conservation. So I'm not sure what to say except, you know, like, if there was a way to encourage Vermont Land Trust to restructure easements to allow certain types of affordable housing, that might be one way to open up land for access. And yeah. I guess that's probably I guess I'll say one of the other projects. Like, one of the first things that's gonna probably come into our portfolio property is actually a childcare project, not a housing project. We started in the Presbyterian Church in East Caspberries, and there's a nonprofit childcare organization called Saplings, and it's a little bit complicated, but the Presbyterian Church wants to donate their land to the land trust to their to allow saplings to use it to do their development. So they have a five million dollar project for, childcare facility planned. And so we're gonna kind of hold the land and trust for them to do their project. I guess also, like, the idea we're talking about Weidman, and it's interesting to hear the idea of poaching each other's employees, but I think that speaks maybe to investing in housing rather than subsidizing the corporations directly. If if you subsidize housing, the it'll flow up to the corporations who have more workforce and it'll benefit the community as a whole instead of subsidizing a corporation at the expense of a neighboring business. Yeah. I think that's enough to start with. Thanks for your time. Sorry. I extended a little longer than the two minutes I planned. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: But we are happy to Great. [Member Tony Miklus]: Just wondering, have you had any conversations with Champlain Housing Trust? [Mike Reddy]: Not directly Champlain Housing Trust, but John Davis was one of the founders of Champlain Housing Trust, and he's been helping us pro bono consulting, helping us, come up with bylaws and and, lease agreements and that type of thing. [Member Tony Miklus]: Yeah. I was just because they've been doing this for a long time in up here in Chittenden County, and they've built hundreds of units. [Mike Reddy]: Absolutely. I mean, Vermont is honestly important worldwide as far as the community land trust movement goes. Burlington Associates, which John Davis was a part of, also is like international an international consultant for the land trust process. And the existing land trust I mean, Gilman Housing Trust is also rural edge and Champlain Housing Trust. I think the difference I mean, they have huge capacity to to take federal funding that we don't have. And I think their orientation is primarily towards rentals, which to me isn't the direction I want to see my communities go. I wanna see wealth kept in the community and intergenerational wealth built through equity and not through paying a nonprofit landlord. [Member Tony Miklus]: I mean, I I own a land trust house, so I know they're not all about No. Absolutely not. I just wanted to mention that because that they may [Chair Michael Marcotte]: be a great resource [Member Jonathan Cooper]: for me. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: I mean, I would love [Mike Reddy]: to make any connections that can help us develop housing in the kingdom, for sure. And I don't mean to say that that's the only focus they have, but as far as what we're seeing in our, like, my specific spot, it's, it's rentals and not houses. [Speaker 4 ]: I thank you for your comments. What resonated with me was some [Rick Ufford-Chase]: of your [Speaker 4 ]: description about maybe a little tension between some of the prosopation goals and housing goals. And I think maybe, you know, that that might it depend it depends where you are, you know, what where you're coming from, geographically maybe a little [Mike Reddy]: bit. And [Speaker 4 ]: I I know from where where I'm coming from, I I hear that that that issue quite a bit. I would say kinda reading the tea leaves, I'm hopeful that I think think people are thinking about that. I mean, they do great, great work around affordable housing in in Madison County. But there's also this part that wants to make sure that it's it's an absolute thing to build on. So it's a good issue. I think that collaboratively, there could be that. We can we can grow you know, we can build that sort of balance. So thank you for bringing that [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Questions? So we're also looking at some thoughts on project based TIFF or something similar to that that can be used by small companies, being able to provide the infrastructure that's needed to install in order to get this housing going. And, hopefully, it helps bring down the cost of so, you know, we're looking at what was it's called spark from the administration. We're not permission yet. I was I think bought from the let's build homes people, called FIT Bank. But it's it's similar to they're both similar, but providing more worth thinking about it and having these discussions, it seems like most the the quickest, easiest, simplest thing for a community is is to provide this is to for them to be able to provide tax abatement instead of going through or process the administrative process of bonding and then having to go for a vote and having to all the administrative costs in most communities don't have staffs on board, so I have to pay for it through the TIF, that type of thing. So I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on that. Or [Mike Reddy]: I mean, honestly, I'm not well versed in the tax codes and the the the bottlenecks I'm seeing. And and as a nonprofit, I'm not sure how if that would have this if a TIF would have the same effect or not. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: But, are you looking at I mean, in in the the the land tracts that you're looking at, are you will you need to have municipal water and sewer? [Mike Reddy]: That's what I was just gonna say is that our service area, none of the towns have municipal sewers. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: So you're gonna have to have Right. Sewer. [Mike Reddy]: And and and there's a homes for all toolkit that was designed by the state, which is a good starting point. It's, like, two hundred and forty pages. It's super dense, and it's still, like, reading it. I I'm trying to read it as a playbook, and it's it's difficult. It feels like a full time job, and I'm a volunteer. And it's completely lacking any, like, actually design plans or, like, I wanna see what alternative septic systems have been approved in the state. There's, as far as I can tell, there's no compilation or or anywhere that I can see where it's like these are the designs that have been approved in the past. This is where to, like, start when you're trying to think of alternative septic designs and alternative wastewater. Yeah. I, you know, I would love and and I'm in conversation with Land Access Opportunity Board, and I've have been they've been super helpful and appreciative and supportive. And, you know, one of the things we're talking about doing is developing a toolkit that includes some of these design elements that would facilitate affordability as well as, like, we're really rooted in the community and I think hopefully, being able to share the community engagement process that preempts some of the appeals and challenges that neighbors often bring to projects that increase the cost and stop. So, hopefully, by including community from the beginning, we can preempt some. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Who's the other piece of macro stop in [Speaker 4 ]: that? Assessment. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Assessment. So assessment areas, creating assessment districts instead of, you know, have an area that you want that people want developed. They want water. They want sewer. They're the ones that are gonna be paying for it. However, the whole town winds up weighing in, and they get outvoted. Mhmm. So we're you know, we're we've been kicking that around too. Should we create assessment districts within the municipality that so that type of, you know, development that people want and others don't that are outside. Can't try to play around with that and and make sure it doesn't [Mike Reddy]: I mean, we've had, like, access to funding for wastewater treat like, municipal wide wastewater treatment that has gotten sent back to the feds or has gotten turned away because we don't have the municipal capacity to deal with it. Like, so yeah, I mean, our town boards are stretched, our town administration is stretched, and even with access to the capital, it doesn't ensure the, [Chair Michael Marcotte]: you know, the progress. We've, you know, we've we've provided dollars to our regional development corporations, regional planning commissions to assist municipalities in doing that in order to get wastewater and water, plants in. [Mike Reddy]: That was n times that n that Yep. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Yep. You know, there's another three million dollars, I think, in the governor's budget this year. More money for MTAP. And so I guess we need to bring the LCT in to better understand why communities are still not wanting to access the knowledge that are there for them to be able to develop when we are providing with that assistance to to communities and not on their dime. Yeah. [Mike Reddy]: That would be great to make those connections to peep [Chair Michael Marcotte]: I mean, maybe they I don't know whether they know it exists or whether they know that technical assistance is there, but I think it would definitely be helpful. The regional development corporations, and we're supposed to go around to every municipality and let them know focus. I'm sorry. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: I mean, you're pretty much getting to a lot of the questions that I wanted. But I guess this sort of general actually, just to have a body record is as a new community development operation, how are you finding accessing information? How are you finding technical assistance? [Chair Michael Marcotte]: What do you mean? [Mike Reddy]: How like like, how am I doing it, or how is it going? [Ranking Member Kirk White]: How is it going? Are you able to to access these these things that, you know, that we are trying to put in place to make the process easier? [Mike Reddy]: I'm I like, we're young. I'll just say that, and we're all learning as we go, making the road as we walk, you know, whatever it is. And so it feels labyrinthine or something like that, if that's the right word. It's the right word. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Yeah. I again, I [Mike Reddy]: think the Homes for All toolkit is a good start, but it it it doesn't leave me feeling like I have a clear path of how to do this. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Oh, yeah. It's it's very important feedback. It's something about if we are gonna get, newer developers in, we have to give them a a clear path that is easier to walk to get to inside. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Thanks. Thanks. So, [Member Jonathan Cooper]: like, I mean, it was it was nice to see NVDA as a part of sort of your process. It's good to see PTV as a part of your process, and you're in a great spot in East Craftsbury right across the street from the community center, and it seems like a here's a really great idea. I'd like to know maybe you've mentioned this. I just missed it. How has the municipality, like, been what role have they played, or do you envision it just small town? And he's I just said more volunteers than, you know, you can imagine. But have they, in sort of thinking through sort of that stack that Sharon Markhart was was discussing where we have regional development planning commissions sort of with the role to play through programming, and we have our external to our statewide partners that are meant to provide guidance. And then you have a a faith community, and you're a nonprofit working together for a child care center in the center of a little sort of village. How have you felt at that municipal level that there's bandwidth for them to also be engaged with all those partners as they may need to be? [Mike Reddy]: Just to clarify, like, our service area is actually Greensboro, Glover, Craftsboro, and Albany. So and we've had, you know, meetings and discussions with all the town boards, and the energy committees. And, you know, yeah, I think Bandwidth is a fair word to say. I don't think they have a lot of Bandwidth to to engage with the process. I think they're all supportive and encourage us to do what we can do, but I don't so far, it hasn't been like, we're gonna devote this amount of our resources or our time to to support it. [Member Jonathan Cooper]: Thank you. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: If that is that helpful? I don't know. [Mike Reddy]: And and to be honest, I'm not you I'm not the person who usually liaisons with the TELUS boards. Right? I we have you know, our board of directors is nine people, and some of the people are pretty tied in at the municipal government level. [Member Jonathan Cooper]: Oh, it's good to go. Yeah. I could [Ranking Member Kirk White]: That was that was covered it. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Mike, thank you. It was a great discussion. Yeah. Thank you guys for joining. Yeah. I'm sure that everybody else that's coming in realizes that we don't just listen, and We have a lot of questions. I'll say it's in the shift. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: So, Abigail, you Yeah. Good. Thanks. Morning, everybody. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Good morning. [Rick Ufford-Chase]: I'm Rick Efert Chase. I'm the director of Newport Downtown Development, which is the nonprofit organization tasked with revitalization in partnership with the city of Newport. Last year, I've also served on Newport City Council. I have, just three points I wanna cover, and then I'm happy to answer any questions. The first is a kind of a report back and an appreciation. I believe this committee was pretty instrumental two years ago, two and a half years ago, wasn't it Mike, on the, CTE project. So that money that you all set aside to create partnerships for CTEs, we were the first one out of the box in Newport. Newport Downtown Development partnered with the North Country Career Center. We worked out a loan arrangement with VCLF and took a five hundred thousand dollars loan to purchase a property that you may have seen on your tour last week. You drove right by the corner. It's pretty interesting looking house at the moment. It's been entirely gutted by the students. Almost all the cladding has come off at this point. The barn has come down. And we had a very interesting challenge. We brought two properties that were contiguous, one of which had a considerable wetland impact on it. And I just found out in the last forty eight hours that we've received a permit for a variance on the wetland so that we can reconfigure the property and it will allow us to expand so that as we finish the first project, we will build a duplex beside it. And by we, I mean, over the next, I expect now that'll run probably five to eight years, at least, with student led development. So the students have been deeply involved. It's working. We're back at VCLF trying to negotiate another round on the loan, and we find them incredibly easy to work with. They're very, very helpful. And I just wanted to let y'all know that it's going great. So that's the first point. Second one is, Newport downtown development signed an MOU a little over a year ago with the Newport City Council, in which we agreed to, manage the process of creating a new detailed master plan for the city. The city of Newport has been kind of studied to death over the last fifteen years. There are more than eighteen studies and reports and community consultations. And there's a sentiment in the community that is pretty widely shared that if one more consultant comes in and tells us to look to the lake, we're gonna just go nuts. The most recent of those that has some bearing and some real helpfulness in it was in twenty eighteen. There was a waterfront and downtown master plan created. VHB did the work on that. They did a good job, but it's kind of a sixty thousand foot view. It's, you know, it'd be really great. Your downtown could look like this. Your waterfront could look like that. What we really knew we had to do if we're serious about trying to redevelop what's gonna end up being more than fifty percent of our downtown over the next decade, we had to get more specific. So we ended up hiring VHB again, actually, and they did a fabulous job. And our Newport City Council on the sixteenth of December unanimously approved a detailed master plan. We had more than one hundred and fifty people directly engaged in giving feedback on that from the community. It calls for nine different development sites throughout our small downtown. And those development sites, if we were to follow this plan, we will follow it as closely as we can. And if we are successful, we will build out more than four hundred units of housing in our downtown core. So that conversation about housing is, [Ranking Member Kirk White]: from our perspective, all about density. We wanna build that housing [Rick Ufford-Chase]: in a place where it turns it into a development sites also includes parking and commercial on a first floor. And so they'll go up anywhere between three stories and six stories on our biggest site. If you've been to downtown Newport, you know about the infamous hole that we prefer to call the Newport Development Opportunity. And that's just to give you an example, that site, if we were to follow the plan, calls for a level of below grade parking, a level of commercial, and then five stories that step back so it doesn't create kind of a tunnel down Main Street with a total of ninety housing units on that block. And we also are looking at, I mean, just to kind of round that out, if we were able to follow this plan, the old Family Dollar store at the far west end of Main Street would become a three story building with forty units of housing, hopefully a pharmacy and some parking there. There's the old JJ Newbury department store, and we're in a conversation about building that up to probably twenty five or thirty units of housing, talking about a redevelopment of the whole area that includes Mike's location with the Jimmy Kwik store, to try and get truck traffic off of our main drag on Coventry and off of Main Street and redevelop that area. And then if you go across the bridge, the causeway to the waterfront plaza, the plan calls for creating lakefront access for the public and then buildings, condominiums, and housing that would look to the lake instead of having its back to the lake the way the current commercial site does. And then finally, the east side complex that Dena Gray owns is slated to become a hotel and condominiums and a restaurant. And so, you know, you're looking We're talking about a massive amount of infrastructure development that's gotta happen there. TIF is like the only conversation we're having right now. There are a lot of things that are going to have to come together in terms of financial funding stacks to make this work. But honestly, we're dead in the water if we can't create genuine public infrastructure partnership to convince developers that they can make the kind of development happen that we need. So we just signed a contract with White and Burke. The city did just three weeks ago now. Newport Downtown Development assigned a second MOU with the city to manage the conversation with White and Burke and to lead us through the development of a TIF application that we expect to turn in about this time or a little later next year. So if all goes well, we'll be up and running. Simultaneously, we're looking at trying to figure out what our first development project should be so that when the TIF ten year clock starts running, we've got our first shovels ready to go in the ground and we're ready to get started. There are all kinds of challenges about that, that I won't try and rehearse in detail, but I will say that it's expensive to build in the kingdom. And even with infrastructure development help that we can provide, it's not gonna be an easy, clear path to getting the development work done. And I was up, two months ago, I drove up to see the operation that RCM runs, which is a Quebec company that builds modular units to build all kinds of housing and buildings. And they have quite an amazing shop. It's all indoors. They build these sixty five foot long, fourteen foot wide units on rails, and they just move down through. And so they can actually turn out two and a half of these units every day when they're up and running at speed. It's really quite remarkable. When it comes off the line, it's seventy percent complete, and they're doing it somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred and seventy five dollars to two twenty five dollars per square foot for that seventy percent completion. It's pretty remarkable. There are lots of challenges, but we are very curious about how we can make that kind of development happen in Newport. Because one of our issues is also timing. Newport has got to get this stuff built, and that's the only way we're gonna solve the long term challenges we have around housing and workforce development, and frankly, the grand list for the city, right? Because if we don't do something about our grand list and get more value into our community on that grand list, I don't see anything other than, as a city council member, I don't see anything other than a spiral. We've got a limited number of people living in this community. Costs for running the city are gonna go up, not down. And the only way to respond to that is with density and housing and new commercial opportunity. So that's the second area. And the third I'll just throw on the table is, I can't say enough about how unified our community is in what can only be described as a shared level of outrage about the Wyman Report and North Country Hospital. I've worked in community organizing all my life, forty years in this field. I have never seen a community that is so totally united across political difference, economic difference, every kind of difference, everybody basically says, you take that hospital out of our community and it's game over for Newport and the surrounding villages. And I really believe that if we don't have a hospital that's viable in Newport, then everything that we're dreaming of trying to do to try and bring Newport back to function as the economic and social hub for the Northern NEK is dead in the water. And I can tell because I've got people telling me I'm on my way out if there's not healthcare here. And so one way or another, we've gotta respond to that reality. And all I can really say about that, here's what I really wanna most say most clearly. The impact is already being felt. We are already hearing stories about people who are choosing not to come because they're not sure that the hospital will be there in the long term, and they don't wanna make an investment or make a move to the northern part of the NDK if there's not gonna be healthcare. So I hear people tell me it will never happen. The legislature will never let it happen. Don't worry. And I'll just tell you, it does not make me sleep better at night. And the reason is because I don't expect that anybody's going to say, we should close this hospital. What's gonna happen is that if we follow anything like the Weiman Report, we will simply start cutting services until eventually it's no longer economically viable to have a smart business decision be to keep a hospital open there. And at that point, it'll suddenly be the only logical thing to do. So what we need is a clear indication that we are going to value rural, rural health care, and that includes keeping a hospital open so that you don't have to drive an hour in good weather over Sheffield Pass. Oh, there we go. Thank you very much, Denise. So those are the three points I wanted to put on the table, and I'm happy to answer any questions y'all have. [Michael Boutin]: So the development that you were talking about Yeah. Based on what you said, that that could be about twenty to thirty million dollars worth of rent loss. Is that correct? [Rick Ufford-Chase]: Oh, probably well over that or more. In the long run. [Michael Boutin]: Yeah. So just something to think about for like our Ed Fund, how much money that will bring into the Ed Fund. [Rick Ufford-Chase]: Yes. In the long run. Right. You know, here's the thing. I don't understand the ins and outs of the struggles going on here in your area. And I'm learning all the time more about that and what the stresses and strains are in the Ed Fund. And I know that in the short run, TIFs can be really problematic, or they can be seen as being problematic. I'll just say, and I'm not hearing that's the point you're making. I just wanna say that, right? I guess what I wanna say is, we've had a hole that takes up a third of our downtown for a decade. If a developer could have made the numbers work to build on that site, they would have done it. I guarantee it. The reason that place is still empty, that that location is still empty is because the numbers just don't work without public infrastructure. [Member Abbey Duke]: Well, after hearing your presentation, you can count me as fully on team Newport. [Rick Ufford-Chase]: Thank you very much, Adam. Come and apply your lunch anytime. [Member Abbey Duke]: So my district is in Burlington. It's you know, hearing your presentation, it's it's most of it you could say about Burlington as well and and and some some of the same assets, the lakefront community. The you know, we're a little further ahead in terms of size. You know, there's some there's some differences, obviously. And, also, we have we have had a pit, not a hole. [Member Jonathan Cooper]: Yes. Yes. [Member Abbey Duke]: Indeed. So, you know and TIF has been a very important part of Burlington's development, and the TIF has been instrumental for the development that is that is now happening in our pit. We have our first building, which should be opening in the spring, which we're very excited. Again, it was a decade probably a decade of having a having our pit. So so, you know, I'm thrilled to hear you talk about density, talk about all the incredible focus on infrastructure and commercial development. And I'm curious, what are specific things, sort of short or long term that you see as crucial to success? I mean, it sounds like access to TIF to help develop that infrastructure. Kind of what else from a state state resource perspective? [Rick Ufford-Chase]: Well, it's the same things you've been hearing, I think, across the board. Right? So the first thing is anything we can do to make TIF happen as easily and as quickly as possible. Any support, one of the things I have loved, I moved up here from my most recent home was in New York state, where I felt like getting access to the state legislature was impossible. Right? And so here, one of the things I love about living in this community is I can pick up the phone and literally talk to almost anybody I want at the drop of a hat. And it's quite amazing. And so in general, I sing the praises of both our staff and our legislature, because it's so easy to have real conversations and to help to work, to figure out how we're gonna work together on problems that as far as I can tell, there's a unanimity of agreement about, right? Everybody knows what we're confronting and they're not any different for Newport than they are for other places, except that honestly, we've taken it on the chin in Newport for decades. And if we don't get started on this right away, we're gonna be in trouble. Having said that, the housing and the building questions are really critical to us. And anything we can do to bring those regulatory barriers down right now, which I think has already been started and has to be continued for us to be successful over time, those are the critical pieces as far as I can tell. We [Chair Michael Marcotte]: have about twenty minutes left, so our vast time has now shrunk. Rick, thanks. If you haven't had the opportunity yet, I would strongly suggest you have a conversation with Will Foster That's the rehab care board. I've I've had those conversations with everyone. I don't I I what I took back from him is that our country won't be taken down, that they believe that he didn't agree with a lot of things that were in the the report, and I suggested to him that he needed to really get that message out. [Rick Ufford-Chase]: That's, I think, my biggest concern. I'm hearing that too, And the community is not hearing that message. And other people thinking of coming to the community are clearly not getting that message. Yeah. [Mike Reddy]: Thank you. Thank you. Hasn't dialysis already been cut? [Chair Michael Marcotte]: That's that's been being worked on, but [Michael Boutin]: Cynthia. [Witness Loralee Tester]: Hi. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Well, the great I can do pretty I can be pretty quick [Chair Michael Marcotte]: That's okay. High level. You still have twenty minutes, Rachel. Do. We have to Great. Hold on the floor. [Cynthia Stuart]: So I'm Cynthia Stewart. I own Stewart Consulting, and I'm actually one of the technical assistance providers who help to support businesses, municipalities, all kinds of work. And it's wonderful to get paid through that process. The one thing I can tell you is there's a lack of me's in the sense that I probably turn away two to five jobs a month of people saying, will you come help my community? Will you come help with this or that? Because I don't have the physical capacity, to do this work. So there's a real need for technical assistance providers. But today I'm gonna focus on one of my clients and focus on the forest industry in the Northeast Kingdom. So a little bit of a shift, but the working lands initiative and the forest industry in the Northeast Kingdom is extremely important. As you know, I'm sure you know, it's a two point one billion dollars annual return, for the state of Vermont as far as all of the industries. But I wanna focus today on kind of a success story, but also a story of a business that had challenges with regulatory requirements. So Kirby Mulch Company is owned by Heath Vinyl. I've worked with the company since twenty eighteen when it was just a dream to bring this to fruition. And Heath owns, multiple companies, a very large logging operation. And he had the the vision to say, we could take the secondary, wood products and create beautiful mulch. So, you know, they create all kinds of mulch that's sold both wholesale and retail and, really bring that to fruition. And this business was one that benefited from the working lands grant of one hundred and thirty thousand to help to buy live floor trailers that can ship this mulch and really keeps everything moving as far as a business. So has benefited from the working lands business initiative that we have in the state of Vermont. So it's really a success story in the sense that this business also serves you know, about seventy five landscapers, hospitals, municipalities where they can actually get this beautiful product and it's sold within a fifty mile radius of the yard in Kirby, Vermont. So it's it's just an extremely important success story. On the other hand, I wanna, share with you that, you know, the dream of opening this business was, even though it opened in two thousand twenty one, it was started three years earlier. And, going through the permitting process, this business and where they wanted to be located touched almost every single one of the ten f two fifty criteria. Literally, when we met with the engineer, we met with the local representative, they They kind of said, you'll never get this business started here. There's ag soils there. And this business, just so you know, it was a farm, it's on route two and there was a barn that we needed to take down. It was just so many issues that had to be overcome. Now, the prior owners of the businesses that had been ran there should have fallen under Act two fifty, but they didn't apply. So they ran for years without being through Act two fifty, but that isn't the way Heath does business. And so we went through the process. And I thought I'd give you a a little bit of a rundown. So first started off with the approval from the Vermont division of historic preservation and the Vermont advisory council to remove a large dilapidated and unsafe barn. And then we went through an environmental assessment to ensure the barn removal wouldn't disturb bat habitat. Then we had extensive wetland delineation. Then we hired a river scientist at the cost of six thousand five hundred to determine the river river corridor boundaries only to have their findings rejected by the agency of natural resources. We had a flood plain assessments, engineering assessments to look at the line of sight for proposed secondary driveways, and archaeological assessment of the fields despite the lands having been actively farmed for over a hundred years, and then payment a premium for mitigating, primary ag soils. But Keith is a, visionary and he also doesn't get disturbed. So he was willing to stay at the course for three years, dollars sixty five thousand and four consultants later, it opened. So so wanted you to know that this is a real success story of a working lands business in the sense of what it really is providing to the community now through jobs, through being able to take those landscapers that they can get their product that's made locally, and also for, businesses that buy wholesale and sell this beautiful, beautiful mulch and firewood locally. And as you're all dealing with looking at regulatory issues, but also looking at programs that support the working lands and support the forest industry, I encourage you to stay the course with with what you've been doing there. It really has helped many businesses in the northeast kingdom, and it's a part of, you know, the life of how we we navigate the world in the northeast kingdom is through our land. And, so so I just wanted to share this story with you about this business because I think it's it's kind of the poster child of what can happen, but also the poster child of how regulatory oversight can impede a small business. If he hadn't had the capital and also the tenacity that he had, most businesses, would not have been able to have gone through three years of no income and, expenses and regulatory challenges that he went through. But, it it is a success story. So I just wanted to share that with you as a Northeast Kingdom consultant who's doing the technical assistance work that you all are, supporting and funding. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: You we will be hearing from Working Lands. We'd we're asked by our appropriations committee to look at budgets from the departments and any generally, working lands is a denied, but it's also an economic development issue as well. So we usually weigh in and we've supported working lands over the years in our budget letters to the to the appropriations itself. Wonderful. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: And I [Cynthia Stuart]: do a lot of grant writing and a lot of helping businesses get through this process. And the working lands process is relatively easy and something that you can get through, you know, without a lot of extreme challenges. So they they execute the program very well as as well. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Yeah. That's good to know. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Yeah. Thank you very much. [Cynthia Stuart]: Great. Any questions? [Chair Michael Marcotte]: I think we're gonna [Member Jonathan Cooper]: my question. That's The f one nineteen working lands grant come prior to all the permitting or afterwards? [Cynthia Stuart]: It was actually in the middle. In [Member Jonathan Cooper]: the middle. [Cynthia Stuart]: And so we had not finished the process yet, but it couldn't until they opened it, they they wouldn't, give us the funding, but it it got approved right around the same time. [Member Jonathan Cooper]: Thank you. [Ranking Member Kirk White]: Yep. Perfect. Thank you. Good. John? [Speaker 7 ]: Good morning, everybody. I am John Ramsey. I live in Greensboro, grew up there dairy farming, and I maintain a herd of about eighty beef cows on the farm still. But my day job is executive director of the Center for Agricultural Economy based in Hardwick. We're a local food system organization and, really trying to sort of build the local food system economy. We are now an organization of forty employees. We operate several programs. We are just bringing online a second, food hub facility, which is adjacent to the yellow barn, and receive state support through the Agency of Commerce and Community Development. So thank you very much for that. Our other food hub facility, the Vermont Food Adventure Center, is still running strong with a lot of farm and food businesses making value added food products there. And we also run a distribution trucking business. So we have a fleet of refrigerated box trucks, and our work is really expanding, you know, outward from Hardwick across the state. Through all of those programs and infrastructure, we're we're facilitating currently over twenty million dollars a year of local food system economic impact. And a couple of the things I wanted to, you know, bring, home today. You know, again, workforce has been talked about. We operate seven days a week, and sometimes our programs are operating twenty to twenty four hours a day to keep local food moving from farm to place. And that really requires a workforce that is dedicated to that work, but we also need to be able to compensate them for that work. And as an employer, we've, you know, increased wages and added, you know, a lot of benefits. The center is now covering a hundred percent of the, health care costs for our employees. And, again, sort of year over year sustained increases in these health care costs is gonna become very difficult for us to, sustain as well as many other businesses who are, you know, continuing to absorb, you know, the the the over year over year cost of health care. We are always looking for folks who have, you know, manager level skills, skilled labor skills. And this is, you know, again, very true from across a lot of the farm and food, businesses that we work with who are also seeking, those types of employers. As a sector, you know, in the agricultural community, you know, we have a lot of old and outdated infrastructure that really needs to be updated for what our current farm and food businesses need. There's a lot of old dairy infrastructure out there, which is becoming more and more of a liability for new and beginning farmers to move on to land and absorb that liability. So that includes, you know, infrastructure that was put in for, you know, water quality years ago, but those manure pits are no longer necessary because the, you know, the the business has changed. How do you maintain and, you know, manage, you know, that piece of infrastructure without the equipment, you know, to do that? We need more infrastructure around aggregation, distribution, processing as a state, and that is why we've put such an investment in the new food hub, the center to sort of bring the whole yellow barn project over the finish line. We're investing four million dollars of our own funds in the new building to get over five thousand square feet of cold frozen and root crop storage up and running, for multiple farm businesses, you know, across the Northeast Kingdom and really Vermont. And, you know, to you know, the other point I'll sort of just touch on briefly is that, you know, climate change, flooding, you know, our road infrastructure, you know, all significantly impacted, you know, by the the flooding events over the last couple of years. So just, you know, farms and food businesses continuing to absorb those costs has become a real challenge. Simple things like fixing farm roads or fixing culverts on farm roads has become, you know, a really unbearable cost. That is why the center for value economy, we are supporting, bill s sixty, which I think is circulating right now, which is the farm security special fund that's really designed to provide financial assistance to farms in, you know, in the aftermath of flooding events, you know, like we've seen. I am also a board member of the working lands Coalition, and I would, again, echo support for that. That not only supports our farm and food businesses, but the forest economy as well. And then lastly, the Vermont Housing Conservation Board. We're a recipient of a state grant annually from VHCB that provides a lot of technical assistance to farm and food businesses, that we work with as part of that cohort. There are many, many challenges right now in terms of farms or food businesses that are looking to transition. We're look we're working with some farms in the Northeast Kingdom who are looking to transition from dairy into other types of, ag and to convert what is has been historic dairy debt into a new cash flow model that will work with a new enterprise is extremely challenging. And it's that technical assistance piece that's really critical to work with their existing ag lenders, to, you know, work out those new, cash flow models that's gonna show that this farm can continue on with its new enterprise that it's developing. So support for the farm securities fund, the working lands coalition and VHCB would all be things that I would, you know, advocate for. Immediately after the flooding in the last couple of years, we've been in the very fortunate position to distribute hundreds of thousands of dollars in immediate flood relief to community members and farms in the form of free meals, grocery vouchers, and emergency loans to farms not only in the northeast kingdom but around the state. But that is also not a sustainable model without further public support. Lastly, I'll just say our annual budget of about four point four million dollars is ten percent federal. And so, again, sort of really anything that we can do as a state to show how much we're able to leverage with the federal resources we do receive, I think would be very helpful for all of us to think about because, again, you know, we're facilitating over twenty million dollars of local food system economic activity. Ten percent of our annual budget is federal, which is about four hundred and thirty thousand dollars. So we're leveraging that money into tens of millions of dollars of economic output annually. And, again, anything that we can sort of message as a state, you know, back to the federal level around how we are able to, you know, take that portion of federal money, leverage it with state funds, leverage it with private philanthropic dollars. I think Vermont has always looked at that model of how do we take something that is coming from the federal sources, leverage it with our own dollars, and leverage it with philanthropic dollars. And I think Vermont has always done a really good job of maximizing, you know, all of those investments into one package, whether it be, you know, housing or education or food. So, again, anything we can do as a state to amplify that message, I would be very grateful for you to do so. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Thank you. Just not to be a wet blanket, but [Speaker 7 ]: Yeah. I was last. No. Oh. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: The federal issue, what's happening now in Washington with the new administration that I hope everyone realizes. So the third our state budget is federal dollar. So we don't know. You don't know. Right. We don't know. There's so much uncertainty out there right now with what's happening with with federal dollars that it it it causes everyone some stress. [Speaker 7 ]: Anything we can do as a community to help show how we leverage that money, please, you know, call me anytime. [Chair Michael Marcotte]: Yeah. And I and I just caution that, you know, the Vermont economy is doing okay, but we're not in COVID times anymore. We're not flush with cash. So there's a lot of difficult decisions that that our appropriations committee has to make. And so I think we wish we could fund everything that all the ads that are out there. And I'm not nothing specific to anybody, but they will they and we have to make those those decisions, and we just hope that we can invest enough money into this into economic development to keep things really going along where it's not hampering development, not hampering housing, not hampering all the things that we really need to do to invest in the state. So they're calling our song right now. Mhmm. And so I wanna thank you all for joining us this morning. Certainly appreciate everything that you all do for the kingdom, and we appreciate the conversation that we had because we've learned a lot just by asking questions. We started talking about to other to the agencies about their projects, things like that. So it it helps us get get to a good place where we can make recommendations to appropriations. Also gets us to a place when we start discussing some of the new things that that we're looking at, CTE, you know, project based TIF or something similar to that to help our smaller communities as well. So, again, appreciate everything you do, and thank you for joining us this morning. Yes, mister. Maybe we're on the floor for ten thirty.

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