SmartTranscript of House Agriculture – 2025-05-01 – 11:15AM

[16 seconds of silence] [Morton Griffith]: So I'm Morton Griffith, agri sustainable program manager with the public health and ag resource management division, the agency of agriculture, food and markets. So we were asked today to testify about the twenty twenty four annual report of the Agricultural Innovation Board, or AIB for short. And also just to address some follow-up things from Tuesday, that came up when we came in to talk about the development of the proposed rule for pest management practices for neonic treated seeds and also neonic pesticides. So first, a question came up on Tuesday about the definition of IPM or integrated pest management that's in the proposed rule. The proposed rule references back to the definition that's in the Vermont rule for control of pesticides. So this definition is an all encompassing definition that actually advocates agreed upon, during the public comment period of the pesticide rule. So that's the origin of this definition. It incorporates components of both EPA and USDA working definitions of IPM. So, I'm happy to answer any more questions, but that's kind of where it came from. [Chair David Durfee]: What did you say that was? [Morton Griffith]: So, when the pesticide rule went through a public comment. So, it was in twenty twenty three. [Chair David Durfee]: Good. Thank you. Representative Ryan? [Representative Ryan]: So there's a definition of it. Is it is there also any policy that's that's being sort of pushed saying, like, when when at all possible use IPM? [Morton Griffith]: So I would say that these best management practice that was one of AIB's main recommendations that, we'll kind of go through more as yeah. Let's let's have these best management practices centered on IPM principles. So I would say this is our first kind of here you you know, like, let's really focus on this. [Representative Ryan]: Mhmm. Great. [Morton Griffith]: So next, we wanted to apologize for not including this level of detail of how the AIV recommendations came about, of how the best management practice proposed rule was developed. So we thought we would walk through these required topics, that are listed in statute for, in developing the rules, the Ag Innovation with the Ag Innovation Board the secretary shall address. And so these seven topics actually framed how AIB approached their legislative responsibility. Right? So these seven topics, is how AIB decided what they needed to know, what they knew already, and what more they needed to learn in order to make a recommendation. So they first did it and went through these topics with their recommendation for neonict treated seeds and then with the expanded scope with the passage of Act one hundred and eighty two that included neonict pesticides. They again went through these A through G, reach out for required topics, and decided, what additional recommendations they needed to make. So, the following slides, are actually pulled from testimony that was given to this committee in January of 'twenty four, on the AIV recommendations for BMPs for neonate treated seeds. So, I've updated them today to include any further information or considerations that the AIV had, after that scope of the recommended recommendations expanded with the passage of one hundred and eighty two. So, this work is captured in both the twenty twenty three AIV annual report and the twenty twenty four annual report. So over those two years, this is how AIV approached it. So they brought in subject matter experts. So university researchers, seed industry, our neighbors to the north, Quebec and Ontario Ministry of Agriculture representatives, and then also just state employees as well as any AIV members that have relevant experience. So looking specifically at, the topics, a and e kind of go hand in hand. So e is surveillance and monitoring techniques. So, basically, you scout and monitor to determine if thresholds are met, and then decide how if control is necessary for your target test. And so AIV looked at both of these topics together. So AIB, a and e are, grouped together. And so they learned, for neonic seed that purchasing happens, and representative Nelson can tell you months ahead of the season. And so if you are scouting for pest pressure before you're planting, it's unlikely to influence what seeds you're purchasing. And on the other hand, if you're scouting before you're purchasing, it's not necessarily a clear indicator of what your pest pressure is going to be the following spring. So, yeah, we also considered that the one of the main pests that's targeted with the unique treated seeds is the corn seed maggot, and there's very few methods for scouting, available for that pest, and no economic threshold is established. So doctor Darby, at UVM is currently working in collaboration with Cornell, of being able to better predict the emergence and pest pressure of the corn seed MAGA. I think she talked about that, a little bit last week. And so the AIV also learned that there's no insecticide rescue treatment. So once you have corn seed maggot damage, your only option is to replant. Continuing with our A and E required topics to address, before seed treatments, growers would project their crop by applying insecticide to the soil before planting, so in furrow insecticide treatments. However, the invention innovation of treated seeds was a much better choice. Site specific. Yeah. Site specific, mitigated, any potential risks to an applicator, and much less product going out on the ground. And so they became universally accepted. So with that universal use, it comes the potential that maybe, you know, they've we've been using them for decades. There might be a halo effect that's, happening that has reduced the population of pests. So it's unclear. We don't know yet how much that halo effect might be affecting or continue to affect any seeds that are planted that don't have that neonic protection. So, based on these learnings, AIV recommended more research was needed on predicting the occurrence of pests, in order to make pest management decisions. And then when looking at these topics for general neonate pesticide use, AIV, reviewed previously published research in BMPs relevant to IPM principles, so thresholds and monitoring and scouting and mitigating risks. And so, the AIV recommended to include IPM based BMPs for neonic pesticides. However, they did call out that specific threshold values and specific guidance shouldn't be part of the rule language because they wanted that to be able to change quickly and adapt as REACHERS was continuing. So, the required topic B is availability of non neonic treated seeds. These considerations haven't changed since January of twenty twenty four when we testified last about it. But overall, non neonic seed availability is very limited. And limiting seed options for Vermont farmers takes away their flexibility to adjust to closer to planting time, so they won't be able to exchange for shorter or longer maturities. Also, taking away this universal treatment also will limit their available seed traits, as, Steve alluded to on Tuesday. The next required topic is, C, economic impact from crop loss compared to crop yield. So AIV recommended that more research was needed under Vermont conditions and that's specifically because, previous research did not capture our typical practice of incorporating really high amounts of organic matter. And so, you've heard Heather is working on this now to compare those different land management practices and including what's common in Vermont in those comparisons so we can learn more. In terms of the economic impact of Munich pesticide use, we'll see. I think, you know, the prohibition takes effect in a couple months, so we'll see if, there is an economic impact of that. Required topic D is the relative toxicities of Munich treated seeds and also Munich pesticides and effects on human health and the environment. So, first, in twenty twenty three, AIB's member Doctor. Owen was a state toxicologist with the Department of Health and so she reviewed the EPA human health risk assessment for imidacloprid. Imidacloprid is one of the three neo active ingredient chemicals that are currently going undergoing EPA registration review process, meaning they're doing the entire risk assessment review of those chemicals and their uses. And so, because they're in a class, they're grouped together. So, she did the imidacloprid one but with similar use profiles, the others should follow suit. And then, also in terms of toxicities, AIV considered and learned quite a bit about the significant toxicity to honeybees. AIB also learned that previous research showed exposure risk of dust generated during planting of treated seed, corn seed, and soybean, potentially contributed to bee mortalities in some previous situations. So, these are more learnings of the AIB relevant to the kind of different roots of Munich exposures to non target species and dust generated from treated seed. This also hasn't changed, since January twenty four when we previously testified, so I'm not gonna go over it in detail, but by all means we can come back to it if you have some more detailed questions. As I mentioned on Tuesday, the Canadian Pest Management Regulatory Agency prohibits the use of talc and graphite as seed lubricants, And, the AAV also heard from the seed industry and how they are continuously working to improve the coatings on the seed, so in order to basically hold the treatments on there better, and we saw maybe the difference in those improved seed coatings and the difference between the red and the green seed varieties that Doctor. Darby showed in her testimony last week. So, overall, AIV's recommendation relevant to topic D for seed treatment was to learn more about dust generation and its impact under Vermont conditions, and growers need outreach and education to understand their potential impact of using these neonic treated seeds and how they can reduce that risk. And so those BMPs are reflected in the proposed rule. For neonic pesticides, the AIV understands registration review of the neonic active ingredients and that that review leads to those mandatory label statements and restrictions that we went through some of them on Tuesday as well. And those that label language is there to mitigate any human health and environmental risks that the EPA has identified. Required topic F, are the ways to reduce pest harborage from conservation tillage practices. AIB learned that no till practices are less attractive to corn seed maggot. Basically, it's all about they really like that organic matter all chewed up. So, basically, it doesn't expose as much organic matter when you don't till it. And Heather is learning more about this and continuing to research, to understand what practices may be able to reduce pest pressures and be less attractive And how that compares to kind of other recommended, practices in Vermont about tillage and, our common practices. So it's it's a fine it's gonna be a balance between recommendations based on what she learns. The last required topic is G, criteria for a system of approval of neonic treated seeds and neonic pesticides. AIB considered, existing regulations in Quebec and Ontario, And for neonic pesticides, Vermont, will follow EPA registration review processes and will align with their system of approval. However, with the passage of Act one hundred and eighty two, we've added some further restrictions, so we have an opportunity to revise that system of approval for neon treated seeds and neonic pesticides as we develop that exemption order process. [Chair David Durfee]: Doctor. Benjamin Nelson? [Richard Nelson]: Doctor. Thank you. Diamide, How is the toxicity of Diamide as compared to Neonet? [Morton Griffith]: Yeah. So that also and I can provide a layer of so that was also part of that January twenty twenty four testimony, and it's slight it's still pretty toxic, the piece. It's slightly less toxic. It might be one thing where you push something here and something falls off the table over here, so it might have higher toxicities two things in the lepidopteran order, so butterflies, for example. So that's How [Richard Nelson]: about humans? [Morton Griffith]: Human, I don't think it I think it's in the same line of neonics is pretty low risk, not like your organophosphates. So NeonX were developed to replace organophosphates. Yeah. Organophosphates were a class of insecticides that had pretty significant human health risks. Alright. [Richard Nelson]: And what about the onward products, Spinosad? [Morton Griffith]: Spinosad is I don't know the specifics on that one. I don't know, Steve, if you know. Go ahead, Steve. [Richard Nelson]: Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Thanks. [Steve Moynihan]: Steve Moynihan with AMS Capital Food Markets. Yeah. So Spinosad has very, very favorable for human health risks and pretty good for environmental, a lot of recall. It is it I believe it has better toxicity characteristics for beads. It is used to some extent for mosquito decay, so it's obviously toxic. Yeah. So that's it. The the one I think drawback is POCS. It available. [Richard Nelson]: Yeah. We're not aware of rest or respirator when you're I thought that was in the BPE. It was for a spinosa. [Steve Moynihan]: That's right. Depends on the formulation. We can [Richard Nelson]: we can pull up a little. Right? I'll pull up label right now. Hang on. [Morton Griffith]: Yeah. I do know also you Steve mentioned cost that Diamizer is significantly more expensive than UNIX. The Diamizer. [Chair David Durfee]: Representative O'Brien? [Richard Nelson]: Oh, yeah. One thing [Representative Ryan]: I I don't remember Heather going over was as part of IBM, was there sort of rotational plannings? You know, you put soybeans where you had corn the year before and just to throw the corn maggot Right. [Morton Griffith]: So you right. You wanna rotate in a crop that is not attractive. Right? So you wanna throw them off to say, like, oh, I can't always go to this road and get my lunch. You know? So, yeah, exactly. That's part of IPM. I don't think that's part of her current trials. [Richard Nelson]: Okay. [Morton Griffith]: I think that it's part of general IPM practices. And so I would say, like, we tried to be general in the proposed rule as far as that. I would say that's, like, a cultural practice underneath IPM definitions. Right? So it's use your, you know, rotate crops [Richard Nelson]: Mhmm. [Morton Griffith]: So that you break the cycle of the best. So I think that would be covered under that general BNP that's in the proposed rule, but it definitely could be included as a call you know, specific call out too. [Representative Ryan]: And then as I understand it, soybeans also are treated articles, so there must be another insect that goes after those. [Morton Griffith]: Yeah. I mean, it definitely and we heard many more presentations about corn than soy. I know soy is is gaining, you know, a foothold here in Vermont, and it just gets lumped in. You know, in all the Canadian regulations, it still gets lumped in. But I think it has pretty similar pests as corn. But we can check with Heather. [Richard Nelson]: Representative Chris. [Representative Chris]: I just I wasn't here last session, so I I had been getting familiarized with this whole topic. But is it Neonics haven't been around for, like, tremendously long out of time. It looks like he was mentioning something about two thousand five. [Morton Griffith]: I think it's around the nineties here. [Representative Chris]: The nineties? Yeah. Yes? Okay. So it's been longer. I I I I don't know if there's any historical data on on what was Right. You know, or data on what was used prior to NeonX. [Morton Griffith]: So before NeonX, it was mainly they were here to replace the organophosphates. So your OPs you probably had some Same in the hands. Yeah. In yep. In Apple. So, but as you know, OPs are have, a higher risk profile for mammals. And so I think that was the main, impetus to try and have an alternative. And so Neonics have a really favorable mammalian toxicity Yeah. Rating. And so then that's and so then, you know and as with everything, you know, it's almost like a silver bullet. And so they were pretty universally accepted. And then when they started going on feeds, then it was that's that's all that's there. You know, this is so great. We got rid of our old fees, and we don't have to even handle the concentrated chemical. [Representative Chris]: And our OPs, also [Representative Ryan]: systematic [Representative Chris]: in terms of, you know, the way they move through the plan? Is that they're they're similar to neonics in that regard? [Morton Griffith]: I don't know the answer to that, but Steve might. [Steve Moynihan]: Yes. Steve, well, again, no. So our gamma phosphates are not systemic in the same way that the mix. I really do do the water cycle. The the systemic materials, and there's a number of different products and different types of dentistries are, but they they have to be sure the water cycle will be taken up by [Richard Nelson]: the funds and organic busines and nothing that water soluble. [Steve Moynihan]: So but they more fully replied. And just as another point, prior to the use of the neonicotinoid seed treatments, the practice for protecting planting seeds was to add the insecticide at planting. And, you know Right. Yeah. So they were if you look at the the planters that were in place of those, you said that Dummyel had insect box that was on the outer planter. You'd have to manually add the insecticide and the fungicide and everything else. [Richard Nelson]: Is that using granular? Or or [Steve Moynihan]: They're both granular, like, with formulations. But but what that resulted in is higher rates of application because you had to make sure you got enough in the furrow and exposure to the handlers once you have that. So if you're handling the That's [Representative Ryan]: Just to follow-up on that, they they probably organophosphates predate, for the most part, treated article c's. Right? So if I wanted to buy an OP treated for a scene, it's probably impossible. Right? [Steve Moynihan]: Well, I don't think that they didn't market them. Right? Yeah. I know. The technology is dependent on that particular It was all foliar? Yeah. Well, it was it was applied in furrow. Okay. So it was put in the soils or surrounded the corn seed in the soil. And the rates were about ten times the amount that we applied when we applied the unit fields as seed treatments. And then I mean, going way back, they didn't the the plants, the or the soybean didn't have the plant incorporated for that. That's, you know, relevant in modern varieties. So in addition to using insecticides at planting, you would have to go back later and apply insecticides fuller. You know, you'd have to crop one or more times to to protect against other, you know, primarily lost cattle. [Representative Ryan]: What what effect did OPs have on on pollinators? [Steve Moynihan]: They can be very toxic to pollinators if they're exposed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. [Richard Nelson]: Sure. [Morton Griffith]: Yeah. So, now we just wanted to kinda take a step back to kind of annual report land. Right? So, in twenty twenty four, the AIB did welcome a few new members and so, new members listed on here Nate Norris, he's a crop consultant and blueberry producer, so he's representing the fruit and vegetable farmers on the AIB, and Brian Kemp was an organic dairy farmer, so he represented the organic farming community as required on the AIB, and then Pamela Wodman replaced Doctor. Owen as our representative from Department of Health. Overall, AIV met eight times in twenty twenty four. All of those meetings are recorded and all meeting materials are online for the public. And then, in addition, all of the formal reports and recommendations are also available online. [Chair David Durfee]: The meeting's regularly scheduled. Is there is it a prescribed you should meet it eight times a year? [Morton Griffith]: So it's so in statute, they have to meet at least four times a year. So, actually, if I can remember my numbers from eight is less than twenty twenty three, I think we maybe we tried to meet every month, so I think we maybe had eleven. We may have missed one, you know, combined that November, December meeting. And so mainly because we knew we had so much to tackle. I'm sorry. I'm saying we at with my AIV hat on. So the AIB knew they had a lot to go through and a lot to learn in order to make, an informed recommendation, and so they met quite a bit. And so the same thing happened in twenty twenty four. Meetings were a little, more spread out in the beginning of the year. And then once, you know, the legislative session and the new NIC bill came in, then they crammed them in every month. So, normally, they're scheduled for the fourth Monday of the month. Now we've gone to the fourth Monday of every other month is the plan with some flexibility. So just as we went through, the main focus of twenty twenty four after the passage of one hundred and eighty two was to address that expanded scope of recommendations for VMPs to include neonic pesticides to go along with their already submitted recommendations for the neonic treated seeds. This is the timeline you guys saw on Tuesday. I just wanted to show where these annual reports fit in. So they are submitted by January fifteenth every year. And so the twenty twenty four annual report also includes as an appendix that submitted recommendation for BMPs for neonict treated seeds to try and kind of put it all in one place, even though it's spanned years. So in addition, in twenty twenty four, AIV AIV heard from the Vermont Center for Ego Studies about the status of wild bees in Vermont and their recommendations to improve pollinator habitat. And actually this year, the agency is contracting the Vermont Center for Eco Studies for additional research on diversity and abundance of wild pollinators on farms. So we're looking forward to getting some more, data, more and more current data about wild pollinators. Also, we heard, from Doctor. Heather Darby. She's a frequent visitor of AIB meetings. She keeps us, up to date on all of her research projects, because they all kind of stem from what AIB learned and recommended. Also from UVM extension, we heard from pollinator specialist Laura Johnson, about pollinator support plan development tool that's available to farmers as guidance on production and land management practices that encourage pollinators. So the AIV kept abreast of Vermont legislature, throughout twenty twenty four. So they follow the neonics closely, and then they knew with the passage in June, of their expanded responsibility. But they also follow, federal and other state activities relative to neonics. So, as I mentioned, EPA is currently going through the registration review process for three neonic active ingredient chemicals. They also have issued an advanced notice of proposed rulemaking for treated seeds. So they're asking for input on how EPA can more closely regulate treated seed. And California is always kind of along the same lines and is following similar legislative ambitions, and so they actually had a law that outlined legal requirements for treated seed bags. And then Washington, became the thirteenth state to restrict the use of neonics, meaning you have to be a certified applicator to use neonics. So VMP development, AIB provided recommendations for neonic treated seeds. That turned into the best management practices for use of insecticide treated seeds. That was submitted in March of twenty twenty four. Act twenty two expanded it. So now we're into, okay, let's look at our required topics a through g. We have to look at them for meonic pesticides. So they went to all the previous published BMPs. You have seen this. I included this just so you had them. The full files of these are attached at the bottom of the PDF, so you can see all the resources and their comprehensive list of BMPs and where they came from. So how, members chose to approach this is they took that comprehensive list of BMPs for neonic pesticides, and they actually ranked them. So they ranked them according to importance and if they should be included in the facility or not. So, in addition, AIV received public comment from the Xerces Society outlining recommended BMPs for both neonic treated seeds and neonic pesticides. And the Xerces Society's BMPs really were built around that basic IPM, principles. And so AIV members agreed with that approach. Again, just with that one caveat of recommending that threshold values and specific guidance should not be included in the proposed rule language, so that's more accessible to change as research continues. So I am not going to go over this list because we went through all of them on Tuesday because they were in the proposed rule. But these are all of the BMPs for neonate pesticides that the AIB ranked as high priority as it's saying that they should be in the proposed language in the rule. So, in addition from the public comment from the Xerces Society, these are the specific, BMPs that were not included in their original, list of high priority ones to include and so they pulled some more out from that public comment that they would like to include in the proposed rule. And then this last bullet was important to AIB and that the rule should be accompanied by a more comprehensive guidance document that includes specific examples and can adjust with new research learnings. And so that guidance document can include information about creating pollinator habitat because it kind of goes hand in hand, but creating pollinator habitat is outside of the use of neonic treated seeds and the use of neonic pesticides. And so, that's how AIV felt like maybe that could be addressed in a separate kind of a company document. So, overall, AIV, made these additional recommendations and then reviewed and accepted the proposed rule language that you heard on Tuesday that was drafted by the agency. So, additional topics that are included in the annual report that the AIB heard, include PFAS policy discussions and legislative actions, also, microplastics research in Vermont and also drone use in agriculture. And lastly, as required, by statute, AIV conducts an annual survey. And so in twenty twenty four, the questions were geared to provide direction for future topics that the AIV should address. So second to non target pollinator exposure, the environmental impact of concern among farmers surveyed is the disposal of farm materials like tires, ag, plastic, and pesticides. So based on these results, AIV plans to continue any pollinator related responsibilities, support the agency as they go through the rulemaking process as needed, but also begin to learn about agricultural plastic. So alternatives that are available, disposal options, and then this fulfills or addresses a legislative charge, that's in the, like, statute for the creation of AIB. It lists thirteen things, and, one of them is recommend practices to reduce the use and generation of waste associated with plastic in farming. So that's kind of where AIV is headed. [Richard Nelson]: Happy [Morton Griffith]: to hear [Chair David Durfee]: you. Yeah. Thank you. [Richard Nelson]: Plastic. Yesterday, mister Dothan was here in Connecticut Connecticut, River Valley Farmers Coalition, and doing a big thing on recycling of agriculture plastics. And I'd really like to learn more about that because we generate a prodigious amount of plastic. It would be great if there is some way we could bail that up and send it to recycling. So thanks for reminding me that. [Morton Griffith]: So the AIB actually heard a a representative from the Connecticut River Farmers Association, Alliance. I'm saying that wrong, but, in our last meeting, and about their kind of pilot program. So that kind of kicked off the AIB's venture into plastic. And now, so our next meeting for AIB is on the nineteenth of May, and we're gonna learn a little bit more about plastics. But [Richard Nelson]: Yeah. Are [Chair David Durfee]: you would you we can talk more about it offline, but if you could get something that we'd like to take testimony on. Yeah. [Richard Nelson]: We just learn about it and see where it's going and encourage encourage some sort of effort, you know, recycle it. Just, you know, the old bunker silos are all covered with six mil plastic and open a lot of it. Okay. It Be better to keep, you know, to not landfill it if that option is available even even if it cost a, you know, small amount and, you know, to get it gone, you know, transportation and get it off the firm or whatever. I don't know. I just it's it's a lot. Yeah. We're already paid transportation to get it off the park. For me, it's fairly cheap because it just goes around the corner of the tree in front of my house. Yeah. Yeah. [Representative Ryan]: And if [Richard Nelson]: you all heard me say a hundred thousand. Yep. You know? Foster, their territory costs more, whether it's around bail rat or bunker silo. [Representative Ryan]: Yes. Right in the river. [Richard Nelson]: Live. [Morton Griffith]: Yeah. That's all all I have, so I'm happy to go back to answer any questions or to go through more detail of anything. [Chair David Durfee]: Representative Brian? So we're considered one [Representative Ryan]: of the restricted NeoNIC use states. [Morton Griffith]: Yes. [Representative Ryan]: And you said, what, only certified applicators can use it now? Mhmm. [Morton Griffith]: For outdoor use, NeoNIC. [Representative Ryan]: Okay. But as a as a gardener, I can still buy some seeds? [Morton Griffith]: You can seeds because seeds are right. [Representative Ryan]: Or I can buy, like, vegetables potentially at Home Depot that have been a drench in them? [Morton Griffith]: They would not have been drenched in I wouldn't think, but Steve's gonna try a new today. Right? [Steve Moynihan]: It's Steve Riel, a generic market. So the labels for d o micton to noise do not allow them to be used for food producing. You know, you can't treat them can't treat a crop that's gonna produce a edible fruit, food within a certain period of time. You're not exposed to the rest because that's part of the registration process. There are ornamental plants that are shipped into the state that are treated with neonicotinoids outside the state. Yep. And up until July one of this year, certified applicators could make applications of neonicotinoids insecticides to ornamental plants in Vermont. Okay. And just to be so the prohibition or the restriction for the registrations or for any outdoor use, they're they're restricted. Okay? And outdoor clean free analysis, but that's considered after all. So so there are some neonictonoid products that are registered for use in home for by pest control operator, but they're not outside use. They're using very low concentration materials, you know, for yeah. And it's it's not common. [Representative Ryan]: So if I went to Walmart, if I bought tomatoes, chances are they wouldn't have a drench, but if I bought a rose, it might. Right. Exactly. [Steve Moynihan]: Thank you. [Chair David Durfee]: Any other questions? So the taking this presentation is on our page, and the report itself is posted to our committee page under reports and resources. So that that's the report itself, which is, lots of text. So Yeah. [Morton Griffith]: So part of that is because of that appendix. So we because we wanted to include that recommendation for neonict treated seeds to kind of complete the picture. So that's that appendix is kind of because that was a lot of work that Abby did. So that's in there. [Chair David Durfee]: You you had with the slide earlier, a couple slides that had the membership, individuals, that's all prescribed also by statute. There should be somebody representing somebody who's a dairy farmer? It's a whole list of things. Right? [Morton Griffith]: Yep. So kind of in the brackets here are all the requirements. So [Chair David Durfee]: so, like, my [Morton Griffith]: soil biologist, conventional dairy, basically, UVM, fruit and veggie, crop consultant, a and r, organic farming community, an environmental organization, nondairy livestock, and then a representative of department of health, water quality, and then, AUC bag. [Chair David Durfee]: To you. And and the origins, the AIB is relatively recently formed, right? [Morton Griffith]: Twenty twenty one, I believe was the past legislation that created [Chair David Durfee]: it. And and prior to that, there was some other entity. [Morton Griffith]: There was, VPAC, the Vermont Pesticide Advisory Council. And so, yeah, the twenty twenty one basically disbanded VPAC and brought on AIB. [Representative Ryan]: Just just a quick footnote on Brian Kemp. I'm pretty sure he's an organic beef farmer. [Richard Nelson]: Farmer now. Yeah. [Morton Griffith]: So he so we have in twenty twenty five, Brian Kemp is no longer a member. And so he has been replaced by Leon Course [Richard Nelson]: k. [Morton Griffith]: Who's an organic dairy farmer. But in twenty twenty four, Brian Kemp was a member of us. Yeah. [Chair David Durfee]: Thank you for your time both today and earlier in the week. [Morton Griffith]: Thank you for the opportunity. [Chair David Durfee]: Right. So why don't we break there? We're I think we're gonna be

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